Sifu Barry Lee is fantastic

[Anisole]

Hi folks,

I was fortunate to attend a class at the HQ where Sifu Barry Lee was teaching. The class was more like a mini seminar we went through the SLT and Sifu Barry picked some aspects to talk about. His approach is concise and realistic.

What I did not know until now was how BRUTAL wing chun is.

Here's some examples:
1. How the centerline relates to the bottom three knuckles. Sifu Barry said the bottom two knuckles connects with the lower and upper lip and the second knuckle goes into the nose.
He said what happen to the guy is the lips inside will bust open and huge amount of blood will go down the mouth. The flaps inside the mouth just before entering the food pipe will close off because it thinks that the blood are foreign objects. So, you cant breathe and this is not helped by the fact your nose is broken so your body goes into shock or shuts down.

2. Sifu Barry was talking about finger jabs and the starting movement in chum kil the two arms raising up before you turn. He said the thumb goes into a person's eye socket then push out gouging the eye out. He said it has to go inside then outside then he showed the same movement on the dummy.

It was a night to remember and an eye opener to what real wing chun is about, of course he stressed on the practise of SLT.

wing chun is really brutal. cool

[Ultimatewingchun]

Oh my God!

Give this boy the antibiotic serum antidote for kool aid - and quickly!!!

His condition is critical...

[snakebyte8]

OMFG! Good thing all windpipes don't closeup when presented with "foreign objects"!

[Liddel]

The only Line of VT ive seen explain the CK finger action as a eye jab with the thumbs is LT, is Sifu Barry a student of his ?

I personally think this is a misunderstanding of the action, anyone used this action with results ? As a finger jab with the thumb ?

Curious

[wei wu wei]

Barry Lee is a WSL student. I have heard only good things about him.

I was taught the same application in relation to that CK movement.

[Liddel]

Barry Lee is a WSL student. I have heard only good things about him.

I was taught the same application in relation to that CK movement.

Interesting - was it taught to you as one possible use or the specific usage ?

Just for curiosities sake why the thumbs ?
To me the thumb being tucked in, is the underlying support of the plam and fingers, using the thumb seems to me to downgrade the hands strength

One thing that stands out to me is the hinge movement of the wrist with regard to this action giving a snapping power to the fingers but this force does not (in my mind ) transmit through the thumb as well as the fingers

Does it not make more sence that if you were to perfom an eye jab you would use the fingers instead ?

Why would one choose the thumb 'rather' than the fingers ?

Dont get me wrong, i respect your POV i am just wanting to understand a little more

[Phil Redmond]

The only Line of VT ive seen explain the CK finger action as a eye jab with the thumbs is LT, is Sifu Barry a student of his ?

I personally think this is a misunderstanding of the action, anyone used this action with results ? As a finger jab with the thumb ?

Curious

It is also taught by other WC Sifu.
PR

[Gert]

Why would one choose the thumb 'rather' than the fingers ?

I also use the thump instead of the fingers to attack the eyes. And not just LT teaches this but a lot of other trainers.

When I do it the thump makes contact at the same time as the palm, or sometimes a little after the palm has made contact. The thump is less vulnerable than the fingers, so also your change of hurting your hand. To hit the eye with just a finger jab isn’t that easy. First the reaction of a human when something is coming to the eye in order to avoid it is really fast. Second don’t forget that you and your opponent are both moving during a fight. The change of hitting the skull or facial bone is much higher than touching the eye and so also the possibility to hurt the fingers. Furthermore the palm and the fingers at the side of the face prevent the opponent form easy escaping by moving his head to the side.

GJ.

[Kevin Bell]

What you're talking about there is known as Cham Kiu Biu Sau in the WSL method. The idea is it can be anything you want. You can put whatever weapon on the handle (forearm) you want. Whilst it can indeed be an eye gouge, it could also be a punch, side palm, vertical palm etc etc. The point being one doesnt limit the thinking to an eye gouge alone.

[WingTsun20]

It's also a movement where the arms thrust forward and you yank the jaw bone down....(Using the wrists) Then back up....

[Mr Punch]

I also use the thump instead of the fingers to attack the eyes...
GJ.

LOL

I'd use the thump too! Much more reliable than these poncy gouges!

(Note to Gert: 'thump' = 'punch': 'thumb' = 'the opposing digit' )

[Mr Punch]

It's also a movement where the arms thrust forward and you yank the jaw bone down....(Using the wrists)

More of that Kool-aid antidote please! It's an emergency!

[Liddel]

Interesting ideas here thanks for replying everyone...

For me i find it easier and more controlled to use my fingers rather than the thumb.

Interesting to know many teachers use it as a thumb strike, i never realised it was this wide spread.

I would and do use my thumbs in a very close proximity to an opponent like in a type of clinch, however i tend to use my fingers when throwing a strike from a distance. And during Gor Sau.

This applies to Gerts point about his palm making contact at the same time - i can accept that - a different senario but a good point gert Thanks.

But as a jab with the thumb

Kevin makes a good point that i also believe in - well put - but we are just discussing one aspect of the possibilities derived from Chum Kui Bil Jee.

WingTsun20 your action sounds good but, would it not break a VT rule regarding using two hands to deal with one ?
Regardless if you want to stick to the rules or not ( because it doesnt really matter if it works in fighting) but i believe this would never work against a COMPETENT opponent. Certainly not against a skilled VT fighter.

I have to agree with Mat on that one.
Kool-aid antidote STAT.

Anyway each to thier own, if you have used it with results good for you

[Gert]

Interesting to know many teachers use it as a thumb strike, i never realised it was this wide spread.

I use it in training and like you in gor sau, but I think there is also a mental or ethical line to cross to use it in a real fight. I mean not just treatening wise like in training, but actually damaging the eye is something else. I think in that case we wouldn't use it too much.

This applies to Gerts point about his palm making contact at the same time - i can accept that - a different senario but a good point gert Thanks.

But as a jab with the thumb

You welcome! And of course you could not call it a jab than, but I didn't think that was acquired or was the discussion. I only gave my opinion to the subject of using fingers and thumps.

Kevin makes a good point that i also believe in - well put - but we are just discussing one aspect of the possibilities derived from Chum Kui Bil Jee.

Yep Kev has a good point, I and agree with that.

Cheers,

GJ.

[Frank Exchange]

For those of you who dont know, whilst the original post may seem nothing more than "Oh, Sifu xxxx is the best thing since sliced bread", it is worth pointing out that Barry Lee is one of WSL's longest serving students since the early 70s, specifically trained by Wong to be a fighter, a demonstrator of the method.

I believe he even married WSL's sister. Whilst that gives no indication of anything other than closeness to the family, WSL's nickname for him of "The Machine" perhaps gives some indication of his ability and attitude to training.

For what its worth. I'm not a student of his, but like others heard many good things about him from people whose opinions I respect. He currently teaches in Australia and Germany.

The original post descibed two well known WSL method actions, so I dont quite see the need for "Kool aid" comments.