WC vs. MMA link

[Phil Redmond]

Isn't a shoot when someone rushes your legs for a take down?
The things i have observed from the few clips and footage i've
seen on mma v.s. what ever style is inexperience and the strikers
seem like they're scared to hit these "grapplers" in thier head.
Some of them seem to just let these "grapplers " shoot in for a
take down
HIT THEM IN THIER HEAD...KNOCK THIER A$$ THE F K OUT!!!

MMA isn't the end of the world...a wake up call perhaps...but not the end
Grapplers can be beat

LOL, that is the best response I've seen regarding the shoot. That should have been obvious.
Phil

[Fajing]

Overall this is a poor example for any stand up art. I don't even see where Wing Chun is mentioned. It just says "MMA vs Kung fu." For all we know he's doing monkey style, or possibly tai chi. My concern is mostly with his physical prowess, or lack there of. Anyone promoting anything will show you some fluke examples of why theirs is superior. It's not a difficult task. Most relies on the fighter himself. I could grab a random MMA practitioner and stick him in the ring with Stone Cold and watch him get PIMP FLIPPED all over the ring. Does that really make MMA inferior to Pro Wrestling? It's all about the competitor, their training/experience, physical abilities, mindset, and drive. We will always see different fighters with different skills woop butt. It's life.

[Ultimatewingchun]

This is something that really has to be worked with...if they shoot to the legs too early (from a longer distance)...than certainly their head is open to be punched/elbowed/grabbed and brought straight down for a front headlock, choke, face lock, or whatever...

But good MMA people don't shoot for the legs anymore without setting it up first with strikes or kicks (usually strikes)...so that they're very close before going for the legs.

And then there's the middle and upperbody clinches that many MMA guys will use (set up by strikes)..and then from there they either go for a different type takedown (sweeps, throws) - while working the middle/upper body...or perhaps they transition to a shoot for the legs.

Defending against takedowns is a big subject - with numerous possibilities to be worked with. There is no one simple answer.

[Phil Redmond]

This is something that really has to be worked with...if they shoot to the legs too early (from a longer distance)...than certainly their head is open to be punched/elbowed/grabbed and brought straight down for a front headlock, choke, face lock, or whatever...

But good MMA people don't shoot for the legs anymore without setting it up first with strikes or kicks (usually strikes)...so that they're very close before going for the legs.

And then there's the middle and upperbody clinches that many MMA guys will use (set up by strikes)..and then from there they either go for a different type takedown (sweeps, throws) - while working the middle/upper body...or perhaps they transition to a shoot for the legs.

Defending against takedowns is a big subject - with numerous possibilities to be worked with. There is no one simple answer.

But there is a method to my madness. There are two grappling instructors when I teach. I see the setups they use before the shoot almost evey class. They have some really good ones and I have some really good counters too.
Phil

[Matrix]

LOL, that is the best response I've seen regarding the shoot. That should have been obvious.

Yes, it is, but it's a lot easier to say than to execute. Some of these guys are tough dudes and can take a good shot. You better land it cleanly and with power. Don't underestimate anyone.

I've been watching some Pride stuff lately and they've changed the rules to allow knees to the head on the ground, this was previously illegal. I saw some wicked knock outs as a result.

[Yung Apprentice]

Interesting, how did you find that out?


Dude got whipped, I kinda feel bad abou it, because he was obviously at their school, and everyone at the school was rooting for this muscle bound freak. As if he needed it, he could have whipped dude standing if he wanted. They seemed like jerks about the whole thing.

And I heard a snap as well.

[Ford Prefect]

Ummm... The San Soo guy put of $5,000 that he could beat John in a no rules match. Eye gouges, groin strikes, etc were all legal in that match. Easiest $5,000 John ever made most likely. Funny enough, I belive Knife fighter was one of the few guys there.

[Fajing]

Ummm... The San Soo guy put of $5,000 that he could beat John in a no rules match. Eye gouges, groin strikes, etc were all legal in that match. Easiest $5,000 John ever made most likely. Funny enough, I belive Knife fighter was one of the few guys there.

HAAAAA! Are you kidding me? That's just awesome. Many props to the MMA guy. As far as the San Soo guy goes, I hope that was a wake-up call. VANITY....definitely my favorite SIN. Egos have to be one of the greatest downfalls of the human race.

[chisauking]

Can't you all see? It doesn't matter whether someone is actually doing wing chun or not, as long as he's been beaten by a grappler -- he's a wing chun man!

Every Tom, ****, and Harry is practising wing chun. OK, maybe only for 1 lesson.

[Merryprankster]

HIT THEM IN THIER HEAD...KNOCK THIER A$$ THE F K OUT!!!

Ah yes! Why didn't anybody think of that before!

In boxing, just hit them in the head - knock them out!

In wrestling, just pin them - instant victory!

In Judo, just throw them on their back - Ippon!

In war, just shoot them with your rifle. OF COURSE!

"Just" doing anything is simple. It's just not necessarily easy.

[Knifefighter]

Dude, I'm not seeing the eye attack attempt.

The kung fu guy's eye attack is what set him up to get his arm broken at the end with the figure-4 Americana arm lock.

[Knifefighter]

The first two seconds says alot...yes...The kung fu guy just tries to rush in (and his hands were basically down as he's coming ) -

The kung fu guy was a "self-defense specialist". The idea was to use his techniques as if he was being attacked on the street- hence the hands down at the side.

Actually, not so much less realistic than the WC guys who do all thier training from chi sao postition.

he threw caution to the wind and clearly had no clue about what takedowns can do if you don't understand their dynamics and how to defend against them.

He was a standup specialist who thought he could beat a MMA fighter using eye gouges, finger breaks, and pressure points.

He actually did have a small amount of ground fighting experience as you can see when he defends the mount. However, he didn't have enough to understand not to go for the eye gouge from an inferior position.l

[Knifefighter]

Isn't a shoot when someone rushes your legs for a take down?

In the case of this fight, the fighters exhanged low kicks. The MMA fighter then clinched and took the fight to the ground.

The things i have observed from the few clips and footage i've
seen on mma v.s. what ever style is inexperience and the strikers
seem like they're scared to hit these "grapplers" in thier head.Some of them seem to just let these "grapplers " shoot in for a
take down
HIT THEM IN THIER HEAD...KNOCK THIER A$$ THE F K OUT!!!

LOL at being able to just hit John Marsh in the head and knock him out. Knocking John out when he is trying to take you down is like trying to knock out a charging bull. Not to mention, at the time of that fight, he was probably a better striker than he was grappler.

[Knifefighter]

Based on the clip, I can see zero evidence of any martial arts training at all. You could have put a football jersey on him, and entitled the clip "linebacker vs. MMA".

This was the classic example of the MA practitioner who does forms and two man drills to the exclusion of actually gearing up and doing hard free sparing and grappling.

[YungChun]

"Self Defense guys" start with their hands at their sides in personal combat? Okaaay..

The point was really made; That in the first seconds as this supposedly highly trained guy essentially 'skipped/jumped' into the air as if he was about to slide into second base. Both his feet either off the ground or near to it; The guy had no ability to gain any kind of positional or offensive advantage and simply gave himself to the grappler like he suddenly fell in love with him.

If you are a stand up WCK guy fighting a good grappler then for God sake please don't leap through the air and into his under hooks. Have the guts to try to use position and energy long enough attack and land at least a single head shot before you go down and end up writhing on the floor like a dying bug...

Sorry but IMHO this guy was not advanced by any definition of the term as far as stand up/SD/KF or anything else goes.