shaolin kempo karate

[pruningmantis]

just wanted to ask the board members if they consider fred villari's shaolin kempo karate a legitimate shaolin art?

[Brad]

From what I've seen (if it was that particular branch) it seemed more an offshoot of karate than anything close to most "Shaolin" styles. I've seen some kempo forms and done a couple myself, but don't really know what branches they all came from (including what I did).

Looking at the training history he claims, the kungfu portion seems dubious (or he got bad translation for what he was learning?). For example, Shaolin temple boxing with no stated lineage is a pretty generic term, and Chin Na is not the "secret art of White Tiger" but a type of technique found in most all Chinese martial arts. The only Chinese White Tiger style I can think of belongs to Doo Wai (which I think originates from Emei not Shaolin... I don't exactly trust Doo Wai either so...). Where I read about it: http://www.villari.com/fvhistory.htm

Personally, at first glance, I think it's about as "Shaolin" as say... Shotokan Karate or Tae Kwon Do. Part may trace back to Shaolin in some twisted up round about way, but not really enough to be considered a "Shaolin" system to most people.

[Ou Ji]

Personally, at first glance, I think it's about as "Shaolin" as say... Shotokan Karate or Tae Kwon Do. Part may trace back to Shaolin in some twisted up round about way, but not really enough to be considered a "Shaolin" system to most people.

Funny you should say that because the Shoto in Shotokan refers to it's Shaolin roots. Although Kenpo is a Japanese version of Chinese Kung Fu it looks and feels more like Karate.

The problem is how do you recognize the roots of your art without looking like you're making false claims?

[kwaichang]

The word Shoto is not related to Shaolin but refers to Gichin Funakoshi's pen name as a writer the word Kan is loosely translated as house or The House of Shoto. When Gichin Funakoshi the founder of Shoto Kan later to be known as JKA Karate first learned his martial art in Okinawa the Kara Kanji was translated as China Hand or Kara Te. When he brought it to Japan in the early 1920's he changed the Character to what is known as empty, hand. Only relation to China is the original character and its origins . KC

[Ou Ji]

The word Shoto is not related to Shaolin but refers to Gichin Funakoshi's pen name as a writer

Guess I got some bad info off another forum. Although it was Funakoshi's pen name I'm still curious where it came from and it's meaning.

I had read on another forum that Shoto was a reference to Shaolin.

[joedoe]

Funny you should say that because the Shoto in Shotokan refers to it's Shaolin roots. Although Kenpo is a Japanese version of Chinese Kung Fu it looks and feels more like Karate.

The problem is how do you recognize the roots of your art without looking like you're making false claims?

Perhaps you are mixing it up with Shorin Ryu?

[David Jamieson]

Shorin is indeed the japanese version of Shaolin. In fact, one and the same wordwise that is.

The okinawan styles are said to have a closer connection to the imported chinese martial arts than what was manifest later on the mainland.

Goju (hard/soft), another famous okinawan style is said to be based on shaolin 5 animals.

As for how to identify your art with it's origin, I think it is not so bad to put it into the style name, although I am not certain that one can blatantly call it 'x' when it has clearly become something unto itself and therefor would be more practical and honest to call it 'y'.

If there is a direct transferance of methods that can be demonstrated across both, then great, but if there is significant alterations from the origin, then that is a whoe different layer of the onion and the origins can be noted elsewhere and off the main signage.

just my opinion and it is certainly a subjective one...like any opinion.

[joedoe]

Shorin is indeed the japanese version of Shaolin. In fact, one and the same wordwise that is.

The okinawan styles are said to have a closer connection to the imported chinese martial arts than what was manifest later on the mainland.

Goju (hard/soft), another famous okinawan style is said to be based on shaolin 5 animals.

...

Is it 5 animals or 5 ancestors? Or Fukien white crane? God I am so confused!

[ninja matt]

just wanted to ask the board members if they consider fred villari's shaolin kempo karate a legitimate shaolin art?

No!! Its Villari kempo the same as ussd. Villari and ussd just use the shaolin name to get people to think their learning a shaolin martial art. If your new with ussd or villaris ask your instructor where is the shaolin in shaolin kempo?

[SenseiShellie]

It's a good Kempo style...I wouldn't classify it anywhere as being Shaolin or CMA

[Mega-Foot]

I went back to the local USSD school in LA, mostly to hook up with Jenny Herzog again. We had lunch at a Dim Sum and talked about martial arts.

She makes a convincing argument for USSD's authenticity. Later, we went back to her place and had a tussle on the mats. I wan't impressed with her martial skills, but I do believe what she says about her style and the "defectors". And besides, I'm used to women going prone for me in very little time.

I really think you guys ought to find a new venue to vent your frustrations. Your hatred for USSD is really little more than outrage at being cut for being out of shape, or for taking a little off the top (in terms of profits).

Grow up.

[tattooedmonk]

I went back to the local USSD school in LA, mostly to hook up with Jenny Herzog again. We had lunch at a Dim Sum and talked about martial arts.

She makes a convincing argument for USSD's authenticity. Later, we went back to her place and had a tussle on the mats. I wan't impressed with her martial skills, but I do believe what she says about her style and the "defectors". And besides, I'm used to women going prone for me in very little time.

I really think you guys ought to find a new venue to vent your frustrations. Your hatred for USSD is really little more than outrage at being cut for being out of shape, or for taking a little off the top (in terms of profits).

Grow up.

Yeah right! Look kid you are going beyond the point of being funny anymore and all the lies tells us at least one thing ...you need to grow up . I advise everyone to stop responding to this idiots posts . You are just adding fuel to the fire. Best way to put out this fire is by removing the fuel.

Oh and by the way , using this persons name and slandering them in your post can get you sued .....or worse.

[ninja matt]

It's a good Kempo style...I wouldn't classify it anywhere as being Shaolin or CMA

I like ed parkers kenpo better. It's more practical. USSD's shaolin defensive maneuvers suck!!!! They have no practical fighting application in them.
If you train at ussd now get out while your still young before they steal your soul and money.

[SenseiShellie]

I like ed parkers kenpo better. It's more practical. USSD's shaolin defensive maneuvers suck!!!! They have no practical fighting application in them.
If you train at ussd now get out while your still young before they steal your soul and money.

Already done that. Ran away with my soul intact...money wasn't but my soul is! Ed Parker has good Kenpo. Like I was saying though, USSD has good Kempo...Shaolin is a whole other issue...

[tattooedmonk]

Already done that. Ran away with my soul intact...money wasn't but my soul is! Ed Parker has good Kenpo. Like I was saying though, USSD has good Kempo...Shaolin is a whole other issue...

So what is your knowledge in or on Shaolin and CMAS??