Tired of so called "MMA" in UFC

[Chief Fox]

Ok, we've all seen it. It's a UFC bout. The fighters are introduced and we are all informed about how much they've trained in a certain style. Most times it's Juijitsu (sorry about the spelling). The fight starts and we see two guys who are wildly trading blows. Very few kicks, some ground work but most of the fight is the two guys just trying to knock each other out.

The other fight we see all the time is the one that immediately goes to the ground and the two fighters roll around on the mat for a while until they are pulled apart or one taps. In my opinion, a very boring fight.

So why is it that these ground fighting experts try to do stand up when it looks like all they can do is stand toe to toe and trade punches? What do they have to prove by doing stand up?

I watch these fights and the whole time I'm yelling "LEG KICK, LEG KICK, HIS LEG IS RIGHT OUT THERE, KICK IT." But they don't. They trade blows and "try" to box. And most do it very poorly.

Maybe I'm wrong but the most popular mix of training these days for MMA is, juijitsu, muy tai and boxing. From the looks of the fights though, there are plenty of guys who can fight on the ground but when it comes to stand up, they're pretty bad. There are exceptions of course but most times it's just a very sloppy slug fest with no kicks.

So the typical UFC MMA fighter is well versed in ground fighting but in my opinion is lacking in the boxing/muy tai area.

Just an observation. For all of you MMA guys out there LEG KICK!

[MasterKiller]

Pride has better striking.

[bodhitree]

There are some great kickers in the ufc though, St. Pierre and David Louasseau(sp?) are good at that.

[Chief Fox]

There are some great kickers in the ufc though, St. Pierre and David Louasseau(sp?) are good at that.

Yep, is it St. Pierre that landed a spining back kick on Matt Hughes? After I saw that I was like "YEA! way to represent!".

[Face2Fist]

ufc is a small spectrum of MMA, you have other organizations like PRIDE, SHOOTO and K-1 that have good strikers and complete fighters that can mix it up.

[SevenStar]

it's hard "trying to box" when you are also worried about being taken down. Also, a lot of those guys are grapplers who are new to striking.

Lousseau won his match in ufc 53 with a spinning back kick. Agreed that he is a good kicker.

[Becca]

If you are having a hard time "trying to box" because of take down threats, you ain't training right. There are oodles of fighters out there who have no problem swinging hard at a grappler, Chuck Liddell for one. And he's a great striker. He can roll just fine. But you don't see him going for the take-down and he never lloks like he's worried about being taken down... Tank Abbot was another who didn't let the fear of a takedown stoppin him from boxing.

[SevenStar]

If you are having a hard time "trying to box" because of take down threats, you ain't training right. There are oodles of fighters out there who have no problem swinging hard at a grappler, Chuck Liddell for one. And he's a great striker. He can roll just fine. But you don't see him going for the take-down and he never lloks like he's worried about being taken down... Tank Abbot was another who didn't let the fear of a takedown stoppin him from boxing.

Liddell has also been wrestling since he was knee high to a pop bottle (all his life). He's also been doing bjj for the past 7 years. he ain't a pure striker. It's his grappling background that makes him able to defend them so well. If takedowns were not a threat, there would be no need to cross train, would there? Tank fought in a period where the game was new. Notice how he started getting owned later in his career.

[David Jamieson]

look, the point of these things is not to showcase martial art, it's to sell violence for money. YOung guys train hard to get a piece of that action for doing something they like and figure they're good at.

ufc fighters are about conditioning and being able to take it as opposed to really being into martial arts.

a lot of them only have a few years of training, but they have great condition and a lot of competitive drive. THis is a prerequisite to this venue.

Yes, there are out of the hundreds of ufc fighters a good number of them that can really fight well in a couple of the ranges or even all the ranges, but the mojority are well conditioned guys with not enough training to be in pro boxing or a specialized event like pro muay thai. Give em time though and some of em will move further into the development of those skills and others will just move on.

[Becca]

Liddell has also been wrestling since he was knee high to a pop bottle (all his life). He's also been doing bjj for the past 7 years. he ain't a pure striker. It's his grappling background that makes him able to defend them so well. If takedowns were not a threat, there would be no need to cross train, would there? Tank fought in a period where the game was new. Notice how he started getting owned later in his career.

My point exactly. Liddell trains the right way. All the wrestling background would be little more tha a data point if he didn't keep it up. And you have a point about Tank. He did start getting owned. But he's still one of my all-time favorites.

My point of no viewing the take down as a threat was actually a valid one, though. If you don't work the ground, you freak out when someone puts you there. The last 2 weeks in class we have been working some Hawaiian Kempo in class, all of which involves putting your opponant on the ground with sweeps and throws then applying an armbar. I have seen alot of people getting hurt from freaking out mid-throw.,getting hurt before the even touch the ground makes them even more aprehensive of it the next time. In a school that doesn't focus solely on grappling, it often takes years for the avaerage student to become cofy with being swept or thrown.

I don't grapple much amy more, but I have done alot of it in the past and I am not bothered in the least at being thrown. I doubt I could still sparr effectively from the ground, but I also know it won't hurt as bad as it looks if I land and tap right. It takes being thrown and joint locked thousands of times to become confident in your ability to land right and tap safely.

The avaerage UFC fighter only focuses on ground skills if they know they are going to be facing a grappler. Then they train hard for 2-3 moths. That just don't cut it. It takes years. It is no accident that all the current title holders have strong wrestling backgrounds. They spent years doing it.

['MegaPoint]

People like sensationalism, other's misery and gratutious idiocy. It's makes their miserable lives seem less drastic. Mankind has proven that ****t ever since forever.

People who fight for the sake of fighting are sadist and/or masochists, whether on a minimal level, moderate level or extreme one. It takes all kinds to move the world, I guess. Imagine if all you could do in life was fight for a living. That's pretty wack. Hurting and getting hurt for what amounts to peanuts compared to other pro sports; just pitiful. It goes beyond that though. These fools love to fight because they've conditioned their brains for it. They are just wired in a weird way. They also have a high threshold for excitement; they are often adrenaline junkies and thrill seekers just like fools who base jump and ****tt. It's not like most of those cats are rocket scientists anyway (Rich Franklin not included). Most of them are bully types and just like high school wrestlers (which most of them were) they have a problem with self-loathing or low self-esteem or controlling others through aggression. Many of them probably come from very abusive -OR- overly permissive backgrounds (i.e.: sociopathic). Without a fully developed conscience beating on someone who is not a real enemy is a lot easier.

Okay so the proper response to all this is if you can't fight but call yourself a martial artist then you need to rethink your classification. In that instance "Martial Wanna-be" or "Martial Novice" would be more appropriate. Conversely, a lot of the MMAs types are martial artists gone astray; Bushi Matsumura wrote about them in the 1800's. They nedd validation outside of themselves. It's called the "Bujutsu of Nominals". Look for Machimura's "Buccho Ikko" and peep a real martial artists assessment of the state of MAs as they always will be.

Happy Holidays to those who celebrate them!!!!

[Merryprankster]

Most of them are bully types and just like high school wrestlers (which most of them were) they have a problem with self-loathing or low self-esteem or controlling others through aggression. Many of them probably come from very abusive -OR- overly permissive backgrounds (i.e.: sociopathic). Without a fully developed conscience beating on someone who is not a real enemy is a lot easier.

Wow, this is so fantastically stupid it must be a joke.

Secondly, you might wish to brush up on sociopathy. Sociopathy is characterized by the inability to empathize with other people, inability to feel shame or guilt, the inability to love and be loved, in varying degrees. This result is that they use other people as tools to achieve their ends, in the same way that a smith might use a hammer and with no regard for the tool. In short, they have no restraints on their behavior, are usually unable to resist fleeting temptations, and impulsive in the extreme with little thought to planning.

Whatever shortcomings you may perceive in these highly competitive athletes, sociopathy would not likely be among them, given the necessity for self-discipline, determination, and planning required to succeed at the sport.

Of course, I'm betting that all of this is wasted on you, since your writings indicate fouled reasoning skills anyway. However, I respectfully request you spare us the pop psychobabble.

['MegaPoint]

Thank you for the definition, and no they are not sociopaths per se, but they do have sociopathic tendencies. If you think that sociopathy entails a lack of empathy or sympathy you are again correct (also called no conscience). Sociopaths like people other than themselves but they often don't respect others outside of their intimate circle. If you think that beating on folks for the thrill, perceived glory and money are not signs of a lack of "feeling" the pain you may inflict while doing this then you're a *******.

Look if you want to kick your own ass (and others) for some sick thrill or for some other B.S. reason (like money) then you aren't a TRUE MARTIAL ARTIST EITHER. In fact you could be an S&M loving, man butt-hugger. So watch how you talk to people who made no affront to you personally.

Neurosis is real. If you get a thrill out of getting hurt and hurting others for some illusory, contrived reason then you may be called out. This isn't pop psychology, this is logical reasoning. For example, boxing is a legit sport, but it plays upon the basest of human emotions. It is a gratuitous show of sadism and it's aim is to destroy what makes us unique in the animal kingdom; our brain. It is a destruction and loathing for humanity, as is rugby, American football and any other full contact sport. All of it is fake-machismo bull**** which feeds on testosterone fueled animalistic behavior.

So does this mean I refrain from peeping it? Hell no! I am fascinated at how many folks are followers versus leaders and how dumb ****s can get strong men to beat each other up so that some corporate **** can get rich. It's ****in' beautiful how peoples flaws can make even more flawed geeks lots of ducats.

So if you have your opinion about it all, obviously that you agree with it, then more power to you. I have my own opinion too, fool. I'll watch you geniuses destroy the West a little more each day with your neurosis. It's very entertaining.

BTW you've gotten a lot more confrontational since last I checked this site out. Increased aggression is always a sign of organic brain damage. Things that make you go "hmmmm"...

Opinionated I am- stupid I am not.... Mary!

[Merryprankster]

BTW you've gotten a lot more confrontational since last I checked this site out. Increased aggression is always a sign of organic brain damage. Things that make you go "hmmmm"...

No, I've always had a low tolerance for willful obtuseness and spectacular displays of fractured understanding. You are the latest to have exhibited those qualities which draw forth my ire.

And you are right, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. That does not, however make them insightful, nor does it make them correct. For instance, your assertions about high school wrestlers are largely baseless. You can point to no systematic studies to back them up, certainly, while anecdotal evidence strongly suggests that there is certainly nothing wrong with them to any greater degree than the regular population at large. This is the default position, that one sub-group won't vary much in mental health, unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

Still, one, after all, may be entitled to their opinion that the world is shaped like a burrito.

re: sociopathy, I believe the term you may be looking for is anti-social disorder. And unless you can demonstrate that high school wrestlers - or any of the other people you choose to impugn - behave or exhibit symptoms of ASD or were abused in a statistically significant way, I'm afraid your point is a bit moot, pal. Your personal opinion that it takes somebody off their rocker to want to compete in a combat sport does not constitute evidence of that, since such activity falls well within the bounds of socially acceptable behavior and does not, by necessity constitute illegal or even immoral behavior. One might ride the slippery slope of competitive tendencies and conclude that Boggle competitors are socially dysfunctional, using your logic. [sarcasm] After all, winning at Boggle is nothing more than an ego-fuelled power trip designed to demonstrate the superiority of the person's mental "muscles." [/sarcasm]

Opinionated I am- stupid I am not

"Smart" people say "stupid" things all the time. Noam Chomsky comes immediately to mind.

Don't worry. I'm not suggesting you are nearly as bright as he is. He certainly would have had his definitions and data in place.

[lkfmdc]

Sorry.... but I have to say, I die laughing when people post about how "real martial artists" don't fight, don't like fighting, play with flowers in the open field and sing songs to sooth the savage beast

Who the F#$%^^&&&# did you train with?

Before the strip mall kung fu school and the second coming of the David Carradine kung fu charade there was once a martial art called Kung FU and I can assure you, the masters back in China were NOT the pathetic, wishy washy, touchy feely, new age, pacifist, granold chomping pansies you want to make them out to be...