San Da take 2

[Ray Pina]

Simply: I got my a$$ed kicked today.

It wasn't the ring. It wasn't the gloves. It wasn't the head gear. The guy I fought was very good. The best fighter I have crossed in a long time. He moved very well and was able to do something no one has done to me since I was a little kid, strike my face at will. Busted me up pretty good.

I will say though, that this guy must have soked every once of water out of his body. Because when he weighed in, my friend and I though it would have been at a very reduced 197 ... thinking he walks the earth at 210. How he made 185 is beyond me. But he did. I was there.

Somehow God, or whoever set these matches, was against me and that's who I drew. He was the only fighter in that place I found intimidating and somehow that was my first match. The first match of my weight division. I'm going to be surprised tomorrow to find out that Stephan Cloud did not win it all at 187.... a very good fighter.

[Ralphie]

that doesn't surprise me a bit. This reminds me of something ST00 said, "train smarter". Preparing properly for a fight, and maximizing the time you trained for it by using sound methods seems like not such a bad idea to me.

[Wong Fei Hong]

This doesnt suprise me one bit either, for one simple reason remember when i posted that exactly the same things happened to me as happened to ray , fiancees moving out car crashes bike crashes illness bankruptcy yadda yadda ,wanting to go fight alone too.
Well thats how my story ended i didnt get bust up but i was put in the ring with a guy a little over 20 pounds heavier and im a middleweight he was 3 weight cat higher and had about 8 fights more than me hehehe . I lost too !

Anyhow the moral of the story is simply that if everything is going wrong in your life, it doesnt mean that somethign will out of the blue go right
Congrats for posting and fighting.

[wiz cool c]

Sounds like your getting some good experence under your belt. Whats that now two San Da and two sparring tournaments. Much more than 95 percent of the kung fu world is doing. I just did a Judo tournament two weeks ago. I am only a white belt in Judo. I probably have done maybe 10 mounths total of judo training but went to compete anyway. I had two matches and lost both but it was fun. A juy with 12 years of wrestling pined me and won the match. The other went the distence and I lost on points. But Ill tell you knowone could throw me. Besides two sacrifice throws that I went along with to avoid any injurys my root was strong.

[rogue]

Ray,

We want to hear the blow by blow. How did your training method work out for you? No matter what kind of crap we all tossed at you I think most here want to know.

[Ray Pina]

Well, I watched the video today with my friends. I got my assed kicked. That didn't change. But if I had to pull some positived out, I'd say:

1) The first heavy shot to land broke my nose. Got the x-ray today. That happened very early in the fight. With that, the blood, I still had fight in me. I took a kick across my nose on the ground at the last Throwdown last Sun and still submitted the guy, so it's nice to see I still have the fight there after taking a shot. I wasn't sure about that because it never happened before.

2) The only thing that I did do that was worth bragging about, is at one point I capture one of his kicks, take him down, and had striking position. I actually striked at out habit and got a warning. Just everything took over.

Then he struck me and put me down, though one was more a slip from what I saw than a power shot. Down 3 times, fight over. I still had more fight in me, and my breath was good, but I was busted, and that guy just had a lot more killing in him left then I did. It was good it ended when it did.

I'll send the video to anyone who wants to host it. Going to AC tomorrow and will be back Wed. If soemone PMs me an adress, I can overnight them a disk on Wed.

Lot's to see with my master tomorrow and sure I'm going to get some hell but that's post game after a loss and expected. I'm going to heal a bit, go to Vegas in late Jan. and see about the cage this summer. I was down three times, but all but the first in a position to keep fighting. That first show I ran straight into after bouncing off the ropes. Guy had great, short, crip power. Good punching. He moved like a boxer. To lose to a guy like that makes it a little easier. Big... huge ... move well with power.... no surprise I get matched up with him. Wish I could say it was a good fight. Wasn't. But I was humbled somewhat, and back to training Tues. night.

[Finny]

Well done Ray.

I don't think I've ever spoken to you online, and sometimes I find the tone of some of your posts over the top, but I give you heaps of respect for actually getting out there and doing it. And being honest enough to report back about a loss.

Again, beaucoup kudos.

[SevenStar]

I can see the excuses, but right now, that's beyond the point. Good job for competing. Now, what did you learn from this experience in terms of:

1. the quality of these guys vs the ones at the throwdowns

2. The methodology that should be used in training for the ring

3. Him striking your face at will. After watching the tape and reflecting, what was he doing that you weren't catching on to? Or was he just that fast in regards to speed and timing?

4. How effective was your striking, grappling, or the "special something" that your master has taught you? What can you do to hone it so that next time, you break HIS nose with that first strike?

These questions and others can help aid you in training for your next fight, be it in the cage or a ring.

[Fallout]

lol. This happens so much. People think they can actually use traditional kung fu in competition. Your going to have to learn boxing, muay thai, TKD, and wrestling if you want to compete in san shou.

[Mortal1]

I was a spectator at the tournament.

First I'd like to mention Ray was also in the forms part of the comp. What I thought was great about it was all the other guys were stretching in these ugly, nerdy, shiny, kungfu uniforms. Ray had on cargo pants and a hoody. He comes out and does a form that lasts about 20 seconds and basically was like shadow boxing with forward moving foot work. As he is doing it he charges forward and goes right at the judge. These guys have never seen this form before so they didn't know where he was going with it. The judge actually looked scared for a minute as he frantically shuffled to move his seat out of the way. All in all he looked better then the other guys. It was very fast and very martial.


I give him mad credit for stepping in with any of the guys that fought that day. His guy was one of the best and the biggest. I can't imagine how that guy weighed under 200 pounds. He was an animal. I think he did end up winning his division too.

At one point they clinched and fell on the floor where Ray mounted him and punched him when he was down. Or at least it looked that way. People in the crowd couldn't believe it. I thought it was funny.

I'm not sure what happened at the end but Ray ended sitting in the corner with a bloody nose after being knocked down. I don't know if the round ended or he just gave up.

Ray I would have came over to say hi but I never met you and I was with a girl. Also I didn't want you to think I was a stalker.

[bodhitree]

Good job for competing. I'm sure you'll have learned something, although you may not see it now.

[lkfmdc]

Ray, I am going to be blunt. It is cheap and rude to try and infer that you were set up... your comment about "or whoever set these matches" is what I am talking about.

Let's state the facts and we'll see what the forum thinks

Ray Pina and Stephane Cloud weighted exactly the same weight at weigh in. They were weighed in on the same scale and literally minutes apart from eachother.

Ray listed his record as 0-1. Stephan's record is 0-0. The third competitor in that weight class, David Rapp, was also 0-0.

Stephan actually has a wrestling background, but currently trains at James Simrell's MMA gym in PA. I can double check if you wants, but I believe he has trained in striking with James for abound 7 to 8 months. For those who don't know James, he was a golden gloves boxer and is a black belt in both Sambo and BJJ.

Ray vs Stephan lasted one round, I have to check the exact time. I also don't remember if the ref stopped it or Ray waived it off. I'll be happy to check as I have ALL the paper work.

Stephan advanced to fight David Rapp, a student of Gus Kapros' Green Cloud Choy Lay Fut school (yes, a training brother of mine). David had no fights prior to this and was in the beginner kung fu forms divisions. David went about 5 minutes with Stephan. IE he lasted the entire first 3 minute round and stopped in the middle of the second due to a combination of being gassed out and a bloody nose.

No one set you up. There was no "ringer" and there was no conspiracy. For you to imply such on here is bizarre. you seem to have wild swings in attitude, really cool dude one minute, and then astounding in your comments the next.

I'm going to suggest that in the future, you fight MMA. This will give you no excuses about not being able to elbow and hit on the ground. In my completely professional opinion, Donnie Carolei was generous in not DQ'ing you for the punches on the ground. They were not a single slip, they were many.

[Face2Fist]

so does that mean ray cant do san shou anymore?

[fa_jing]

I'm curious as to how the guy was able to hit you in the face at will. He doesn't appear to have much experience in striking but is obviously athletic with the wrestling background. Was it his attributes being very superior? I would think that would be a problem, it sure was when I would try to stop my sifu's punch. I'm reminded of your comment on pak sao "not being enough to stop a grown man's punch." Do you think that some of your techniques fell short in the same manner you were alluding to? Also, do you use head movement defensively when you fight?

[Mortal1]

Pak sau is used to deflect not stop the punch. As a matter of fact all wingchun blocks are deflections.