A Wild Thought About Tai Chi and Wing Chun

[ghostofwingchun]

This Chinese friend of mine commented the other day that Chen style and Wing Chun seem to have a lot in common. This was after he watched many videos on Chen style theory and compared that with Kenneth Chung and Tsui Shan Ting's theories. I remember an Escrima teacher who commented that Wing Chun was very different and much more sophisticated than Escrima. Then after he studied Wing Chun for 3 years he made the comment that Escrima and Wing Chun are about the same and he can't really tell them apart. If you train a lot of Tai Chi pushing hands and Wing Chun sticking hands then it's very easy to blend the two arts. In the end you just fight and whatever from whatever art comes out naturally.

Ray

Mr Ray how does a person's race enter into the picture? More interesting is what were this person's qualifications? . . . the opinion of uneducated person looking at videos is not noteworthy . . . you include race but not qualifications . . . I am at loss trying to understand why someone would say this . . . can you explain? I am sorry but I also don't understand discussions comparing different martial arts . . . I am wondering if you are trying to suggest that wc should in some way be like tai chi? It is not surprising that Kenneth Chung's and Tsui Shan Ting's theories sound like tai ji . . . isn't it a fact that they have both been very influenced by contact with tai ji community? I am thinking that push hands and chi sao are exercises . . . not real application . . . and as exercises can be done in many different ways . . . so person influenced by tai ji might do chi sao similar to push hands . . . this does not provide evidence that two are similar. . . similar to person influenced by tai ji doing wc forms like tai ji does forms . . . then talking about how wc is similar to tai ji. Perhaps I am missing what you are trying to say . . . can you explain?

Thanks,

Ghost

[hen]

There are similarities between every martial art


I am saying exactly the same!!!

Internal Art - to me, focuses from within and not on the movements only. From within comes the movement. I find this (feel this) in both art.

This is my simple understanding.

Hen

[stricker]

A senior student in my Wing Chun class trained in Muay Thai and continually notices similarities. He's always showing us how core movements are so closely related. Too cool.

Tell me about it! Pretty much every technique in muay thai is somewhere in wing chun (except the round kick) but of course the body use is different, like the long knees and front kick in muay thai they put the hips into the opponent more leaning the upper body back for balance where wing chun is more upright and conservative of balance. also if you get the chance to do some neck wrestling with a good muay thai guy theyre very soft, slippery but relentless, always messing with your balance and using sensitivity. of course its different to chi sao but still its really cool coming from wing chun.

anyway yeah its worth checking out some muay thai to put a different perspective on your wing chun. also they do thai pads work, which is AWESOME!

ps i used the word "conservative". i think that really sums up for me one of the biggest differences between wing chun and stuff like mma, muay thai, wrestling, and thats wing chun is more conservative. not only of balance but also in terms of the balance between attack and defence. wing chun is always attacking with your defence, defending with your attack, theyre really one and the same, where for example muay thai is a bit more balls out attacking, taking risks, or you shell up a bit more and go on the defensive.

[steeltoe]

The guy I train Tai Chi for does also do Wing Chun, and Escrima. He started with Tai Chi in 1958 while serving in the British forces in Malysia. And with Wing Chun for Greco Wong in London a few years later. According to him 'There is but one sun and it has been shining on man for thousands of years.' It is the principles of motion, power generation, balance, etc that matters. Form or system is just a way to teach and learn. He will show one movement from taichi and then the variation in wing chun and escrima. This is his way of interperting the systems. They are all the same but there are differences to them.

Regards
Jonas
Sweden

[YongChun]

Mr Ray how does a person's race enter into the picture? More interesting is what were this person's qualifications? . can you explain?

Thanks,

Ghost

Hi Ghost,

I didn't mean anything by it. I train with someone who learned Hung style in Hong Kong from age 5 or six until he was a teenager. Then he learned Wing Chun and trained with me since 1980. In between he got a black belt in Taekwondo. Also he has done a lot of Tai Chi push hands, applications, some Hsing I and has studied a lot of Chen style. We train regularly. He is not the best but is the best person I have trained with over the years. I was probably trying to say that my friend was very well schooled in Chinese martial art because he has been doing it for more than 35 years and trains constantly. Still he is not a professional in that he has a regular career.

My opening comment was to start some kind of discussion and was not meant to be some kind of deep insight. Sometimes interesting discussions can come from strange opening discussion lines such as the one I put forth.

On the subject of Tai Chi, someone has posted an interesting rare link to a long video clip of Cheng Man Ching doing the form, push hands and sword work. Robert Smith has an interesting writeup about him in the book Chinese Masters and their Methods.

Ray