Looking for something for flooring tatami/lino pvc/mats

[Wong Fei Hong]

Im looking for some cheap flooring for the school, as everything ive found is above 20$/ sq metre, with shipping it comes to about 22-24$ per sq metre for 150 sq metres + im looking at almost 4k dollars for mats and thats being conservative, looking at average prices they are 40-60$ per square metre. Going up to 180$ for 1x2 metres

So im looking at alternative covering, i found a really good insulating material, which is used for between walls, its a kind of semi polystyrene semi soft plastic, which you can breakfall on. However im looking for something to cover it with, since it can get damaged without covering as the top isnt very strong, im looking for something like a lino or pvc with a tiny bit of sponge like 3mm under it.
Again i found this but it cost about 18 dollars per square metre, which was taking the pi$$
If anyone has any ideas of someone that sells cheap alternative either online or if i could correspond with them through email or post it would be great.

[ShaolinTiger00]

http://www.norberts.net/store/martialartsfloor.htm

I highly recommend upgrading to the 2" foam. it's pretty much heaven for training that involves high amplitude throwing like judo or san shou.

[BM2]

http://www.matmerchant.com/store-pro...g_8115912.html
Since shipping is not included in either products already posted, see which one ships for less.

[Wong Fei Hong]

Hi thanks for the replies i think what i am looking for is the cover on norberts.net ,

3.4$ per sq foot for the mats comes out to 34$ per sq metre !!!! I cant believe how expensive mats are.

I will use the insulating material i found as the main part of the mat as it is about 2 inches thick and ideal for this use , cover it with 3mm of sponge and cover it with the 18oz coated vinyl (polyester scrim) from norberts site.

Thanks guys, any other options are welcome !

[Oso]

Step One: Get a business license for you/your school.

Step Two: Get a wholesale account with either Martial Arts Mart, Century or AWMA.

For the $25-$50 cost of the business license you will be able to get wholesale pricing on everything you want.

Norbert's is nice but still high as hell for a start up school.

The 7/8'' puzzle mats are hard to beat cost wise at wholesale prices of about $15 per square meter (1 mat). If you buy in volume (at least $250) you will get an additional % off. I caught Century at a sale and got them for $11 a mat. I did a 16x16 area for sparring for less than $400 including shipping.

I was given some of these by a friend:

http://www.wandix.com/free-items/sportsmats.html

I ordered 4 more to finish out another area and they were $20 a piece for just the 4 and about $16 for shipping.

The century mats are softer in composition than the wandix mats and aren't great for doing forms or for training kicks on as your foot sticks a bit if you have shoes on and even some in bare feet if you aren't aware.

The wandix mats are not as soft and have a slicker finish but not slippery and are great for running forms on but suck to take a fall on.

For throws/ground work, buy a couple of 4x8x2" folding mats to put on top of the 7/8"

[ShaolinTiger00]

Norbert's is nice but still high as hell for a start up school.

$2.25/sq. foot is dirt cheap for 2" thick mats. Tatami mats will run you $100 apiece!

you can get cheap mats, but you won't be able to take throws day after day.

Fact: Quality mats cost money.

[Oso]

I wasn't saying the cost per foot was high...just the overall cost.

I would have paid $200 more for Norbert's stuff to do that 16x16. I simply had to get something to put on the concrete as cheaply as possible.

I totally agree with the sentiment but if you don't have the money...you don't have the money. You can upgrade later if you get more money coming in.

My students don't take many falls on the puzzle mats. Like I said, and recommended, use folding mats when lots of falls are going to be trained.

Unless his name belies his general style, he's not doing judo or jujitsu.


WFH, if the stuff you're talking about is what I think it is...it's not going to last even w/ a cover. It's polystyrene foam which is very brittle and does not rebound after being crushed. A hard fall with and elbow, knee or head hitting it hard will give you a big divit.

[Wong Fei Hong]

Thanks for the reply guys i really appreciate it, the problem is the space is 150x100 ft so thats 15000 sq feet, which as oso said if you aint got the money you aint got the money, now the thing is the school will be mainly a stand up fighting school,but my other half teaches trad jujitsu and judo, if the school ever takes off properly then i want the mats for that.

Having said that i need to buy the stuff from now to have for later and i dont want to leave it with just concrete on the floor for now cause since im taking out loans and buying the bags i need etc i want to do it in one go and i dont mind once the money comes in to upgrade again, however i dont want to fork out that sort of money and not have anyone using them for 6 months 8 months and just have them there and the bank loans loomin.

The material i found, is something like polystyrene foam but not quite,the centre part of it is more dense and not brittle and you can breakfall on it easily like a mat. But if you jump on it with your knees like 100 times repeatedly it does dent and it doesnt pop up again its brittle on the outside but the thing is it doesnt get so bad that you cant use it, if it was covered it would look a little uneven but not much. If its uncovered though it would look mangled in 3 months.

However it comes to 200 dollars for 15000 sq feet which is really really good, i could get away with using it if it was covered for a long long time and then upgrade.

If i could get some off martial arts mart hey gene then 15$ per sq metre is a basic price of 140 sq metres x 15$ = $2100 now if we could get a discount like you said im looking at around maybe 1800 ? with (10 - 20 off)
Shipping at most is 400 dollars for a container. i live in europe. so we are at 2200 before taxes, if i get taxed at 25% vat + sports tax it comes to 3000 dollars to my door all paid, if they would be nice enough to fake an invoice at martial arts mart to save taxes on my end then im looking at around 2500 dollars all in all. Or if they could get me a vat rebate on that end, but i dont have a vat no down here.

Thats borderline feasible, if i could get it shipped and taxes paid for around 1800 dollars then i would go for it but as things stand i would like to try and go for an alternative.

[Oso]

15000 sf is awesome. Is it all open?

if I had that space I'd subdivide and run multiple classes at the same time to maximize getting kids classes going.

I'd still seriously check into puzzle mats. For basic flooring they can't be beat at 1.22 a s.f. w/ no real maintenance or having to deal with a covering that you need to keep tight.

I'd seriously check into it. At the volume you need you could get a really good price I think...probably less than $1/sf. Put em on the floor and you're done.


good luck

[Wong Fei Hong]

Thanks man, yeah it is open, its still being built, like a hanger, or warehouse had the land so im building it on that, slowly slowly as much as i can afford at a time. There are also around 40 square metres for a couple of small offices and changing rooms.

Thanks for the info btw , i will definately look into it , because the wholesale prices you mentioned really are far from what is posted as retail prices on their websites.

[GeneChing]

The mats at MartialArtsMart are high end on the retail side. But Oso is totally right - get your resale license first and learn how to write off business expenses. After you get that, contact Tiger Claw, our parent company and wholesale outlet. To be honest, few people buy mats retail.

[Oso]

one point though...it's probably obvious just looking but...

every company uses a different design for the interlocking part. you can't mix and match between companies. so, you might have to decide blind but you'll be stuck with that company if you want to add later. you could order one each to see which you like best and go from there.


Gene, you say 'resale' license? Will TC not set up an account with you if you only have a general business license? I had sent a query to MAM, Century, AWMA and Title all at the same time 3 years ago and MAM was the only one not to answer back. I'll need to try again...I like their pants best.

[Wong Fei Hong]

Thanks for the reply gene much appreciated, We dont have resale licenses in this country and its not compulsory to get vat registered either.
I have a government registered club/organisation if that is good enough to send to tiger claw which gives me right to operate in this country as its considered more prestigious down here than just a business.

Also about writing off business expenses i havent paid tax in 8 years and my loans are high enough that profit isnt even in the equation to get taxed on yet
ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[GeneChing]

You know, to be perfectly honest, I have no idea about your questions now. I'm not exactly sure about what is required for a Tiger Claw account, nor do I know how foreign accounts are handled. Frankly, it's not my department, but I'm sure if you talk to the good people at Tiger Claw, they could answer all of your questions here. Note that there is a difference between MartialArtsMart and Tiger Claw. MartialArtsMart carries many non-Tiger Claw product lines and it's retail. If you are a school or store, you should really be dealing with Tiger Claw.

[greendragon]

One method is to build a frame around the area with 2x4s, fill it with old tires (free), lay down cheap plywood or particle board over the tires, cover that with old carpet pad (free) or your alternative, then cover that with a huge canvas tarp from a tent & awning company, they can put some grommets in the edge, tie it down good to the 2x4 base with screw eyes.
The tires give enough spring for jui jitsu & the canvas is flat and smooth enough for sparring/forms/training. Old school way from before commercial puzzle pads were around.