Cultural bias and "Memoirs of a Geisha"

[Mr Punch]

the author concedes that people familiar with the culture will see straight through his story for what it is, a story and a romanticized and highly western view of the thing.

As I said, the facts are fairly well researched and quite accurate (as in many of the points about the training and mentoring etc). The character portrayals all seem pretty American - they just don't seem to behave like Japanese people of that era would from my experience of talking to maiko and also people from that era. I teach at the YMCA and there's no shortage of that generation of people whose brains I get to pick!!!

The geisha's suit was that she was recognisable from the story but that it didn't give her any credit and that it altered too many things without making her unrecognisable: defamation.

after all, despite the research and all, I doubt a white middle aged american male would have a lot of insight into geisha society lol.

True, but like I said, he did a lot of interviews with the geisha it's based on.

[Jimbo]

I suppose what really bothers me is that it seems that in general, Westerners believe they can direct films about Asians, but that somehow Asian directors can't possible have the insight to direct films about Westerners. For example, pretty much nobody in America thought anything strange when Bernardo Bertolucci directed The Last Emperor; same with Western directors doing The Last Samurai, Shogun, Marco Polo, and now Memoirs of a Geisha. But when many people think of a director like Ang Lee directing non-Chinese-oriented movies in America, they usually say, "How can a Chinese direct that?" It's a very condescending attitude; on one hand, Asians are stereotyped as being over-educated and "smart"; on the other hand, we're too stupid to direct anything outside of a narrow spectrum of subjects within our own cultures.

As for "Geisha," I might see it just because besides King Kong there hasn't been anything in recent release I feel like seeing. Also because I do like Zhang Ziyi. I'm of Japanese descent but don't feel too strongly about the use of Chinese actresses to star in it. I have doubts the film would do too well in Asia. I don't agree with the filmmaker that they were necessarily the most qualified actresses to play the roles; I think they were chosen because of their fame and familiarity to Westerners, and because in the West, most people don't think there's any difference anyway.

Whew. Got that rant outta the way.

[Judge Pen]

I suppose what really bothers me is that it seems that in general, Westerners believe they can direct films about Asians, but that somehow Asian directors can't possible have the insight to direct films about Westerners. For example, pretty much nobody in America thought anything strange when Bernardo Bertolucci directed The Last Emperor; same with Western directors doing The Last Samurai, Shogun, Marco Polo, and now Memoirs of a Geisha. But when many people think of a director like Ang Lee directing non-Chinese-oriented movies in America, they usually say, "How can a Chinese direct that?" It's a very condescending attitude; on one hand, Asians are stereotyped as being over-educated and "smart"; on the other hand, we're too stupid to direct anything outside of a narrow spectrum of subjects within our own cultures.

Yo Jimbo (sorry man, I couldn't resist),

I never really noticed that particular bias. Ang Lee is one of my favorite directors; I think he brouhgt a life to those 'Sense and Sensibiltiy' that all the British directors lacked. As for films like "The Last Samurai" it was told from a Westerners perspective so the western director seemed appropriate. I had an issue with the ending of the film, but most Japanese people that I know didn't so what the he11 do I know?

I'll probably see Geisha this weekend.

[Sekabin]

Yo Jimbo (sorry man, I couldn't resist),

I never really noticed that particular bias. Ang Lee is one of my favorite directors; I think he brouhgt a life to those 'Sense and Sensibiltiy' that all the British directors lacked. As for films like "The Last Samurai" it was told from a Westerners perspective so the western director seemed appropriate. I had an issue with the ending of the film, but most Japanese people that I know didn't so what the he11 do I know?

I'll probably see Geisha this weekend.

Yeah Last Samurai went down really well in Japan. From what I hear Geisha (called "Sayuri" here) isn't doing great, but still better than expected. I might see it just for curiosity's sake, if I've nothing better to do. The cultural bias aside, I'm not sure I could stand the terrible English

[SimonM]

I think they were chosen because of their fame and familiarity to Westerners, and because in the West, most people don't think there's any difference anyway.

Exactly...

That and they can speak English relatively well. However there are probably hundreds of Japanese actresses and a fair share of Korean actresses who can speak English. They just don't have Ms. Zhang's drawing power.

She still is awfully pretty though...

Not quite as pretty as the Korean lass from "The Myth", Ceceilia Cheung, or my new Girlfriend (ok so I'm a bit biassed on that front ) but....

What were we talking about again?

Oh yeah, bias.... What you said Jimbo.

(So I'm having trouble staying on-topic lately, I've been through a heap of life changes in the last 6 months and I am on vacation!)

[Mr Punch]

According to the Time article I read Zhang Ziyi can't speak English. Not enough to handle the direction anyway so Michelle Yeoh had to translate for her.

Unlike Koyuki... Yuu Takada... and any number of beautiful talented Japanese actresses.

They're never gonna get the international pulling power if racist ****s like Marshall don't hire them.

And as for the internet tossers on several nationalist boards in China who reportedly said Ziyi deserved to have her breasts hacked off for playing in a Japanese story - if they're true, those ****ers want swatting.

[unkokusai]

According to the Time article I read Zhang Ziyi can't speak English. Not enough to handle the direction anyway so Michelle Yeoh had to translate for her.

Unlike Koyuki... Yuu Takada... and any number of beautiful talented Japanese actresses.

They're never gonna get the international pulling power if racist ****s like Marshall don't hire them.

And as for the internet tossers on several nationalist boards in China who reportedly said Ziyi deserved to have her breasts hacked off for playing in a Japanese story - if they're true, those ****ers want swatting.

Well said, sir.