Chinese martial arts deliberately being self destructive

[Invisible-fist]

Look,

If you want to fight, take sanshou. If you want to brawl, take MMA. But don't whine beecause TCMA isn't something its not.

There is way more to MA than fighting, and most of it is in the forms. If you don't like forms, get out of TCMA.

[SevenStar]

There is way more to MA than fighting...

That depends on whom you ask.

[Lohanhero]

the destruction of CMA... wouldnt that come when the attitude of even some of the people teaching it wishes to change it saying it cant be used.
using words like "real world" ect, to add to their credibility.. all is like a poison.
but doesnt matter as my sifu says, "you do what you do and i will do what i do"

masters of the past(and those still alive today) fighting and wining in china against foreners using what they learnt. but that doesnt matter does it... so gongfu was taught more secretly untill was open to foreners that wished to learn... so now the next attack begins, the poison from the inside.


..nevermind.

[Invisible-fist]

At what cost? TCMA contains BOTH "dancing" and "fighting" elements. If the "dancing" elements are lost, TCMA will just be sanshou. THAT will be the death of TCMA.

[Invisible-fist]

That just ain't so.

Forms demonstrations and performance kung fu didn't begin with the communists and aren't unique to modern wushu. There's a long tradition of performance in CMA. Theres plenty of moves that are pure showoff in traditional styles...check out Northern Shaolin.

This same debate, of pretty forms vs. effectiveness was going on back a hundred years ago.

Swordfighting and kickboxing were pretty much obsolete by the time modern wushu was systemetized...it had nothing to do with keeping fighting techniques out of the peoples hands. It IS true that CMA was initially forbidden by the CCP as being "feudal", but then they changed their minds. That happens.

Wushu was created as a taolu competetion because they were building a Chinese national sport and the elaborate crowd pleasing performances were #unique# to chinese martial arts.

[Invisible-fist]

I will never do the form from the 1st move and finish to the last move like the modern Wushu guys did.
.

Then you are NOT doing TCMA.

[lkfmdc]

The obsession with forms is fairly recent, I'd say less than 100 years old, and in large part due to commercial schools. Simply put, forms do not equate Chinese martial art any more than silk PJ's do.

Older systems were more interested in short drills, lots of two person work and fighting.

As far as the communist party and it's role in destroying TCMA, I suggest you read Ck Yang's "a Chinese village on the verge of the communist revolution" which is a first hand account of the communists taking over a local village.

While you might think that a modern gov't wouldn't be worried about some TCMA guys, quite the opposite. They shut down the local "lion dance club" and confiscated all their weapons. They labelled them an illegal martial organization.

Furthermore, Mao long held views on what he wanted to do with martial arts, dating back to his very first article in New Youth.

1. Keep the people healthy through movement but deprive them of the ability to revolt (ie Wushu)

2. Keep the army strong with martial arts (ie San Da)

[Wong Fei Hong]

This thread is really cool its took on so many different forms. I guess its just like tcma everybody sees it from a different viewpoint and practises it for different reasons!!

I think that the problem lies in not everyone can get what they want from tcma, some people want to train only forms and some people only want to train to fight but most schools meet halfway.
Im not talking about wushu and san da as that is one extreeme or the other.
I mean tcma schools you take 1000 hung gar schools and maybe 980 of them will teach you forms and how to spar like a kickboxer or, no sparring or sparring like a hung gar guy but no contact.
Then you gotta dig out the 20 schools that are hardcore, but they are usually located in a place where people dont go to or train, they probably dont even know what mma or realistic is because to them hung gar is full power sparring and becasue they have been realistic all their lives they take it for granted !

[Invisible-fist]

I think that the problem lies in not everyone can get what they want from tcma, some people want to train only forms and some people only want to train to fight but most schools meet halfway.
!

Exactly. What bugs the hell out of me is when people insist that TCMA MUST be a particular way. MA is a house with many rooms. There is a place for everyone. If people want to do forms, that doesn't take anything away from the full-contact that everybody in internet land is so busy with.

[lkfmdc]

MA is a house with many rooms.

IMHO, a mansion built on a toxic waste dump still is a house with Sh -- t for a foundation...

Too much tree huggging and feeling good about yourself because "darn it, I'm a good person" and not enough focus on the fighting.

Focussing on fighitng doesnt' mean everyone is a fighter. But the training builds the character, confidence and self esteem. I have a kid who actually tried to kill himself a fw months before he joined my school. A year later he's dropped over 55 lbs, has a job and feels good about himself. He didn't think he could fight and train this hard. He learned it was all in his mind and that a positive attitude is essential. His entire life is changed

And without us eating granola and concentrating on the chi in our lower intestines

[SevenStar]

You got somethin against granola?

[lkfmdc]

yeah, I got something against granola, you gonna do something about it!

[SevenStar]

*popping handful of granola in mouth* umm... No, I was just asking, that's all...

[GeneChing]

If anyone could use a good bowl of granola, it's you, lkfmdc. Don't think we didn't notice your rather telling focus on fecal issues in your previous post. Have some granola, it'll keep you more regular, and a regular lkfmdc is a much happier lkfmdc.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Drills are forms.. not the traditional complex dances, but repetitive sequences of movements designed to instill a natural response.. some folks take the easy road, some folks work through the details, and some folks just find their thrills instigating conflicts..

There seems to be two basic schools of thought, pure combat vs. a structured combat system with multiple options for varied results.. where pure combat has only one result victory or defeat.. most of the "pure combat" players i know are very destructive and have little concern for finding less damaging options, often having the appearance of brutish bullies looking for a reason to show off their "skills"..

Two of my favorite mentors have the belief that it is irresponsible to teach someone to break another human without teaching them to also fix another human.. so, the system is more than pure combat.. note: the history behind the healing was to put soldiers back into combat as soon as possible, so.. i suppose it can be directly related to combat.. again, forms instill options that are not often used but much appreciated when opportunity presents itself.. as i had said earlier, i found myself in an awkward situation where, without conscious thought, a sequence from some forms training saved me from some embarassment.. i wouldn't have normally considered that option, but i was real happy it was there..

Personally, i find most people interested in "pure combat" to be a bit aggressive and a bit sterile/empty.. they seem to be on a quest for domination over others.. now, that's just a personal observation of "most" of that specific group.. the ones that spew rhetoric about the death of TCMA and its useless attachment to "forms".. as many have admitted, old TCMA is not today's TCMA, generally.. originally, the goal was to produce a capable fighter, and that includes the ability to regulate one's body and mind, to recover from injury and to maintain a calm warrior mentality.. I sometimes sense that we focus on extremes, pure combat vs pure esoteric.. where there is a middle ground from which the best of both perspectives produce a balanced Martial Artist..

Be well..