Katrina devastated the south, gas 6 $ a gallon

[Fallout]

Maybe you didn't read the stories. People were helping, but unfortunatly they are dead now.

[Fallout]

I agree that Iraq sucks. Don't get me wrong, I think we should have never gone. We've wasted billions trying to help the Iraqi people, but their lives have not been improved.

One of the main reasons supplies can't be redily delivered is becuase of the refugees themselves. They shoot cars, helicopters, everything. They mob attack anyone trying to deliver food. They are making it difficult forthemselves. The red cross and FEMA cannot go into the city becuase they will die if they do.

This is why they are putting in national guard armed with machine guns instead of red cross armed with band-aids.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

People were helping, but unfortunatly they are dead now.

I haven't seen a a story where any of the relief personnel have died by refugee violence..

Again.. the Gov't can wage a pointless war built on deception in Iraq.. a war for "helping Iraq's people".. and the same Gov't can't figure out how to help its own citizens? If there had been aid in the first 48 hours there's a liklihood that there would be far less violence today.. air-drop basic supplies to start the process.. there has been report after report of trucks and vehicles just passing by the desperate refugees.. they have no way of knowing what's going on, no TV, radio, phone.. they only know they have very little time left and the aid is simply passing them by.. with all our evolved resources, surely we can drop enough supplies to ease the tensions.. to give them hope.. this is day 4, put yourself in their mind-set, your family is dying, you are dying and no one is stopping to help.. and, if they do, it's only to tell them that help is on the way.. those people cannot feed themselves with hope that seems to never materialize..

Be well..

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Is our Gov't more afraid to help its own people in a tense situation than it is to wage war for foreign peoples? How sad is that!!!

Be well..

[mantis108]

I think TCB is onto something important here. Why would the Americans have no problem "helping" Iraqis by occupying their country to rebuild it in the American model; meanwhile, Americans will enforce martial law on other Americans (the less unfortunate ones). How can Americans expect the future Iraq to have a better life after this obvious failure to care for its own people from a model of so-call democrating society and super power? Is that divine design or "justice" (that some might associate this with) at work or what?

This catastrophe is in my mind a major sign that the USA is maxing out on resources both human and material wise. What's worst is the Bush Administration is like an animal that's only interested in saving its own fur and it's own kind. This is really sad to see such an incompetant government in office running a "super power". I suppose God totally won this round and the super power state zero. The state of USA as a super power really is put to the test. How much more mistakes can it make before it totally collapses?

Be well and be prepared, my American friends.

Mantis108

[Fallout]

I totally agree with you guys on Iraq. No arguments there. But we really didn't go to "help Iraqi people". That's just a political justification. We went because we saw Iraq as a threat and we took it out. I don think the Iraq war has reduced terrorist threat or helped the Iraqi people. It's been a fruitless war no matter what the reason for going was.

And again, yes helpers HAVE died by the hands of refugees. A bus driver who was going there to help people was mobbed by hudreds of people and beaten to death. You wonder why the police keep on driving? Becuase if they stop people start banging on your vehichle wanting a ride. Then they start fighting each other to see who gets the ride out of town. Then you have people killing each other for that vehicle. It's like the new Tom Cruise alien invasion movie when everyone mobs his car, and a guy gets shot to death.

It's the same with the choppers. The couldnt' even land.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Humble bows to mantis108.. wisdom worth considering..

The US has failed to establish control on foreign soil and on its home soil.. cooperation is better than "control".. Aid will win their hearts, bullets and force will find its way back to us..

Be well..

[Fallout]

And the soldiers purpose is different in Iraq. They are there to shoot insurgents. They are not supposed to shoot civilians, but many get shot anyway. It's mostly overlooked that 100's of thosuands of Iraqi civilians have died. We've lost 1800, but that is really nothing. We are not losing the Iraq war in lives lost. In fact we are kicking serious butt. We are however losing in the "keep things under control" game.

However if soldiers open fire in New Orleans there will be a huge stink about it in the media. It will be "soldiers slaughter unarmed refugees". Already some national guards men have been attacked and one has been shot in the leg, and another refugee tried to wrestle away a guardsmen's rifle, but was then arrested. The national guardsmen have so far shown alot of restraint. People fear several hundred guys with machine guns, so they are a little more orderly when food is being given.

[Ou Ji]

"and had to wait 3 hours there was so much demand for guns"
This is why crazies like me get what's needed before hand. Sh!t can go down anytime and I'm ready to go, no fuss no muss. Properly stocked cabinets and closets are all you need.

And the reason why the US can go into Iraq to help them but not help their own is because THEY DIDN'T GO INTO IRAQ TO HELP THEM.

They can't help the disaster area, they only know how to invade and conquer.

Just watch. It will get worse then troops will go in to restore order. They like to practice those types of invasions.

[Fallout]

I guess to sum up all my posts:

Don't blame police, soldiers, volunteers, doctors, and others for not stopping their cars, landing their helicopters, or distributing food. In this situation you need several hundred guys with machine guns to safely distribute food, and bus people out of the city.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

In this situation you need several hundred guys with machine guns to safely distribute food, and bus people out of the city.

Only because they dropped the ball early in the game.. and, i think we have the resources to do this immediately.. more doing/less talking.. the military should have been on-site late Tues. early Wed. .. no excuses!!!!

AND, what message does this send to thugs in other inner city situations.. that law enforcement is unprepared for civil unrest.. its an empowering message to gangs and thugs.. and it tells the decent citizens that they're pretty much on their own.. this is a public relations nightmare...

Be well..

[MasterKiller]

Anyone watch BBC coverage of this event?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/

click the "Bush vows to step up Katrina aid" link. Heart-breaking video you'll never see on American corporate-owned media stations.

[Fallout]

There are disasters all over the world. Refugees in Africa who are starving accept aid and are very appreciative of the men who risk their lives flying out choppers to them. Flying choppers in a war torn area is not safe, they are very vulernable to rocket propelled gernades. But those guys safely land their choppers and refugees don't kill the piolet. They thank the piolet and realize he risked his life for them and there will be more piolets to bring more food later.

The refugess in New Orleans are burning their bridges. They are not respectful of the people who come to help them. Many of the citizens there are cursing the national guard for not being their earlier. It wasn't the soldiers decision to wait several days. The individual soldiers dont' have the authority to make deployment decisions. Show some respect to the men risking their lives to save you.

I'm mad at Bush for putting our manpower in Iraq. I'm mad at the government for not putting the national guard in sooner. But i'm also mad at the refugees themselves. If your a citizen, your blameless. If your a soldier, everythings your fault.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

No one is suggesting that the victims are blameless.. only that there are contributing factors such as the lack of leadership and command decisions.. and, now we pay the price, establish order, save those that want to be saved and let nature reap those that won't get with the program.. i have the highest regard for the individuals that are there helping.. and little regard for those that let it get this far..

What we need and deserve is accountability.. and a mandate for immediate planning for the next event.. not some long study and committee BS.. national stockpiles, military distribution systems, and rapid response teams.. someone commented about constitutional restrictions for military involvement.. The founding fathers would hang those that would use such an excuse, the Constitution was never intended to prevent humanitarian aid from saving American lives.. Our Politically Correct society will correct itself out of existence if we're not careful..

Be well..

[Ou Ji]

FYI it's pilot, not piolet. Not a jab at you, just helping.

I don't think anyone is actually blaming the individual troops themselves, except maybe the ones shooting at them. Most here are critizing the ones calling the shots, the decision makers that try to hold onto the funds and get away with as little as possible. They seem to prefer spending the money on getting what they want more than helping their countrymen.

Somehow there's no end to resources if they want to invade a country. Fighter jets can scramble when needed unless a couple of planes get hijacked and the general (expendable) public is threatened.

Ok, time to cool off. Blood is boiling.

Cooler heads will prevail and as usual help will come from the ranks when they see it's up to them to do something. Forget the dunderheads running the country.