Challeneged Emin Boztepe this Sat.

[anerlich]

He was very open, and told me Master Cheugn was 43 when he fought him, the same age he is now having invited me up to play. He also sai Chueng insulted his master.

To duplicate the situation, you should have gone there with a whole bunch of your buds, and video equipment, challenged him, and when he said "hang on ... why" jumped on him immediately.

I agree, maturity has wised up a lot of people, and arguably nobody involved in this acted honorably. If you're going around challenging people, I gather maturity has yet to catch you up.

BTW, Emin said in a magazine interview a while back that he was sent by Leung Ting and Keith Kernspecht to ambush Cheung. that he regretted it, and that he no longer bore Cheung any animosity (I assume he mentioned that to you, since he was so open and all?). Cheung insulted Leung Ting, but he also insulted just about every other senior WC practitioner in existence as well at various times. Only LT took the mouth boxing seriously enough to respond, and responded badly.

Today we must face the harsh reality of the death of the honr system and understand that the evolution of martial arts will not allow for good clean challenges

My academy has had about four challengers in the last three years. There were no shortage of challenges in the early days of BJJ in the US either. I agree with you that the sporting arena is a healthier place for comparison of skills.

[Vajramusti]

"I play chess because I'm a chess player. Someone wants to play with me I ablidge them to see if I can handle their technique and strategy and if not why I failed. I don't think about how I can gain financially from it, unless we are playing for money but that just makes it more interesting between two guys who are close in skill."
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Ray- you appear to link your orientation to both chess challenges and MA challenges. I dont know about your skills in either activity... but chess has a relatively
reliable ratings system that is updated with each match. Out of curiosity what is your
chess rating- do you have one? Will your rating name be listed as Ray Pina?
The National championship was held here in Phoenix a little overa week ago. There were opportunities for challenge matches as well.

[Ray Pina]

The most skillful guy I've played with in a while would be a BJJ guy from Philly. He recently won advanced No Gi Grapplers Quest. We sparred lightly and rolled and he was abble to tap me a few times, but at the same time I had periods of dominant position when I would've been striking. It was a good match. We're planning on fighting soon, maybe this weekend. He just got back from training in Brazil. I have size and better stand up, he's much better locking on the ground.

It's a matter of if I can beat him good uptop or have the structure and power to hold off a lock long enough to belt him good. I'll let ya know how it goes.

Other than that, I've had some good success against TKD, Ju-Jitsu, JKD, Kung Fu, Wing Chun, Tiger Claw, Hapkido, boxing, wrestling (team mate of Mark Kerr) and two brawlers ... one of which was pretty tough with a hard chin. The levels varied from a few years of training with a recent turn on for this kind of fighting to 20 year+ instructor.

......
I don't know CJ, I don't think about it that much. Really. I just try to fight who I want to fight when I feel like it .... or at least ask. I know there are guys who I just can't compete with yet ... I know that. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm finding you have to build a certain level of inner rage, a fire, to really bash someone. It's not anger or hatred, it's just this darket feeling and I find possession of it has changed everything for me. And I spent the past week with a girl I was sweating for the time before this challenge and it did effect me. I should've been fishing and bashing a few trout on their head and focusing. If I was there mentally I probabaly would've been more provoking. Anyway, I need to build this fire with more experience before I can fight the very few folks that I really want to fight. After that I'll be satisfied to just improve my ability by training hard but that is some time away.
........
I used to play on Game Colony.com but it's been a while. My rank varied on that from about 1535 to 1615 with dips into the high 1400s and low 1700s. It's a relative rank though, depending on the rank of your apponant. Sometimes a genious signs on at the issued 1400 and slaughters you. Sometimes a newbie will only play guys ranked 1300 and run up their rank to 1700 until they play a higher-skilled player carrying abum rank.

Either way I like to play. My money game is 5 minutes as black. Do that a few times and then switch colors.

[Vajramusti]

"I used to play on Game Colony.com but it's been a while. My rank varied on that from about 1535 to 1615 with dips into the high 1400s and low 1700s. It's a relative rank though, depending on the rank of your apponant. Sometimes a genious signs on at the issued 1400 and slaughters you. Sometimes a newbie will only play guys ranked 1300 and run up their rank to 1700 until they play a higher-skilled player carrying abum rank."
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Thanks for the info. Game Colony com is fairly recent phenomenon and their ratings are uneven and unreliable.
Serious ratings are/have been USCF and FIDE.

[Golden Tiger]

I should've been fishing and bashing a few trout on their head and focusing.

Wasn't it once said that most serial killers started out abusing animals? Hmmm, just think aloud......

[Ray Pina]

Listen, this is just getting rediculous.

You either bonk the fish (2 fish limit where I fish) and put it out of its missery or let it sophocate in a plastic bag for 30 minutes. It just so happens that the humane thing to do also involves a very natural thing for man to do, to take life in order to sustain his own ..... be it a fish, a cow or even a string bean.

With that said, why does everyone have their panties in a bunch .... and with me?

I challenged someone to a fight and they refused AND I still had good things to say about the man, about his power and skill.

Maybe other's refused and I didn't feel the same way. Everything is an individual situation. Two people can say the same thing but say it differently.

When he said he was scared to put me in the hospital it was because he believed that was the case. As a person who fights I could feel his confidence.

When other's have told me the same -- I know, and I know they know -- it was out of cowardice. That's OK. It's natural to fear losing, being hurt, and even possibly losing one's position, or supposed position.

I tell everyone who fears hurting me --- including Emin -- that it's OK. I have the video and I obsolve them of any responsibility.

So what's the problem? One fighter asked another to fight? One fighter (me), actually has something positive to say about the other (Emin). Usually, in this case most people would call him out and say I challenged him on video and he refused. But that wouldn't be the whole truth.

So, again, what's your real problem? I'll be honest. I'm sensing you're a weak martial artist and the idea that this type of thing goes on, and you are so far removed from it, bothers you. You don't know what to do -- perhaps pick up your training -- so you mock it, make fun.

I run into people like you all the time, that's why you're so easy to recognize. My friends and I build double-decker bikes. Most love them, but there's always the ass hole who makes a negative comment when we ride by on the boardwalk. They don't know us, haven't ridden the bikes and can't deny that they're cooler than his standard K-Mart bike .... so why the negativity?

If this type of thing does not interest you there are plenty of threads about preparing flan, who did what with the correct, politics, religion and everything else under the sun except how one man handles another in free combat.

Good luck with all that other stuff

Ray Pina

[Shaolinlueb]

no...it was too long and the spelling was atrocious.

I don't have time for this crap!

who invited me here anyway?

lets go back to the isreal school thread :P

[rogue]

FLAN!!! It's what gave 7* his street cred back.

The most skillful guy I've played with in a while would be a BJJ guy from Philly. He recently won advanced No Gi Grapplers Quest. We sparred lightly and rolled and he was abble to tap me a few times, but at the same time I had periods of dominant position when I would've been striking. It was a good match. We're planning on fighting soon, maybe this weekend. He just got back from training in Brazil. I have size and better stand up, he's much better locking on the ground.

Ray, nice line up of opponents. I'm assuming that most of this was friendly, so when you say you and the BJJ fighter will be "fighting soon" do you mean a friendly roll or a challenge match? What kind of rules are you using when you do this? Thanks

[Ray Pina]

The matches I mention above, against those type of stylists, were arranged over the internet. For the last 4 or 5 I've had a digital video camera so I have footage of a few of those fights .... though my friend didn't hit record for the best fight of my life against the JKD guy who was really a tough brawler with a ground game (that one haunts me).

To date, everyone has been cool. We never go into detail about "do's and don'ts". I generally say as we strap on the 4oz "Do what ya want, just respect the tap" and they nod in agreement.

For me, I will strike the head of course with fists, elbows, forearms and even my legs and knees if I can and that's what's called for. I'll attack the ribs with intention of causing pain, same for collar bone.

I will never attack the eyes or groin, pull hair, bite, scracth, etc in this type of thing. Gentleman's rules.

I haven't attacked the throat, though I have pushed off on it to get leverage to escape a lock or two .... it's done the trick so far though my master showed me how it's not such a great idea last night.

I have to say, I'm feeling a little weak right niow. Don't know if it's because the Emin thing was anti climatic (no fight) plus I learned there's guys out there (lots of them) with a lot of power and technique and that makes for a dangerous fgihter no matter the level. Also feeling a little run down because I become like a monk 4 days out before a fight and can go overboard afterwards to make up for it. Nothing crazy, but been eating unhealthy and running late hours the past few days.

I need to focus again. I need to find that fire again. Been too caught up in matters of the heart the past 12 days or so but I know I'll get it back.

[TenTigers]

Ray,
could you post some pics of double decker bikes? I have no clue what yer talkin about. I have this image of the bicycle version of those guys who put car bodies on chassis all jacked up like a monster truck. Now THOSE guys are just plain stupid.
There was a guy in my neighborhood who had like a dodge coronet up about eight or nine feet on this insane monster truck like chassis. It was different, it was unique, everybody recognized that car, I'll give him that.
Don't try to come to my house to pick up my daughter in that, I'll snipe ya from the roof before you get to my front steps.
...but I digress......
btw-keep up this thread. It gives those who for whatever reasons cannot, or will not, or one day want to, live vicariously through Ray's exploits.
It also gives a peek into the mindset it takes to train, and push oneself both physically and mentally to face these challenges-even within yourself.
****, Ray-this has all the makings of a great reality show. You should keep filming it and sell it to Spike TV.
(voice over) "Are YOU up to 'THE CHALLENGE"? -catchy, huh?
I see this culminating in Ray erecting a Lei-Tai at the beach, and taking on all comers. I also am visualising the end scene in "The One"-ok, getting carried away here. (but he DID do Hsing-Yi)
OMG! Ray-YOU'RE THE ONE!!!

all kidding aside, I don't think this thread should be a Ray-bashing thread. I think he;s sharing not only some good info, but alot of himself as well. If you make it into a bashing thread,I'm sure Ray will simply say F***-off, and that will be it. I know I would. Ray is giving a heckuva lot of insight into his personal experience.
Jeez, it's not as if he's Vasquez!
Keep it up, Ray.

[TenTigers]

Ray,
did you tell your Sifu about this? What is his opinion?

[Ray Pina]

A double decker bike (http://www.geocities.com/ratpatrolhq/BikesTall.html) is welding one bike frame ontop of another to make one tall bike that ides just like a regular bike. Mine isn't tall. I tool two frames and made a long chopper that has a Lau Tzu statute welded onto it, along with roatating saw blades held on by magnet so I can throw them into wet boardwalk wood (just for the fun of it) as well as some rusting Chinese bells. It's just fun to go bike with friends late night and get some air .... it's a beach town thing.

As for my master, I told him I wanted to challenge Emin a few weeks ago when I learned he'd be in NY and he played it off telling me I'd probabaly have to pick a number with all the Wing Chun guys that would be there to do the same. I don't know if he though I was serious or not.

Afterwards, I could sense a little anoyance from him that I didn't handle this man easily. Maybe that's just something inside myself though, he never said anything but I feel like I know my master. Truth be told I've only been with my master about 3.4 years now so the fact that I could play with this man and not be defeated, though I don't feel like I "defeated" him either, is good enough for me now.

I learned I still need clinch work for guys who are taller and heavier than me. Turns out my master was working on this exactly when I walked in last night.

My master always says he doesn't care if I win or lose, just that I do it right.

For me, I'm going to focus the next few weeks on power, doing a lot of two man sets and standing. Also on getting my head right, it's just not in the same space it was 3 weeks ago.

[mantiskilla]

I checked out your link, do you study all of the styles listed, or just a select one or two? I just glanced through the site and saw this, "It is not a technique base style where the movements are the way to defeating the opponent. It is rather the use of the principles and correct use of the ideas that is incorporated into Teacher Chan's Style."
I really appreciate this statement. This is what creates a person who can use his art. IMO. Good luck with your training.

Bill
________
Body Science

[Marcos-XB]

you should have killed him when you had the chance

[rogue]

Truth be told I've only been with my master about 3.4 years now so the fact that I could play with this man and not be defeated, though I don't feel like I "defeated" him either, is good enough for me now.

Ray, I hope you don't mind but I have to ask why you are treating this like it was an actual fight? Did you actually cross hands with Boztepe in someway?