Lowering standards

[X-Warrior]

Did you guys also experience that as time has passed, a lot of schools began to lower their standards? I see a lot of students just don't need to practice as much as we had to, nowadays you can do your required pushups for your test with your knees touching the ground and the like. Where did 'quality' went? Why are people no longer interested training very hard - with all respect due to those who still do. I read an interview of a praying mantis master who refuse to teach in Hong Kong as he said, 'Because people are not really interested there in practicing anymore, they are more interested in enjoying life'.

I also had a close friend who had to close his school because he was teaching the way he learned his art and by the time he realized this was too hard for people today and began lowering his standars, he just finally had to close his school. People dropped out, he didn't have enough students and couldn't pay his lease. He threw parties, gave extra break during class ... etc. but it was just too late (shall I mention for us, instead of throwing parties, WE were thrown out if we didn't practice. ).

Did you guys also notice this trend? I wonder why this is the way of today and why is it heading this way to the future.

-X-

[Pakmei]

Hi There,
I've seen this many a time in various schools of martial arts.

I feel that people today aren't really interested in learning an authentic / traditional based martial arts (whether it be Chinese / Japanese / Thai / Korean, etc) and prefer to opt for the what I call Bull S*%t styles, because they can't or aren't prepared to put in the hard yards.

I myself, much prefer to train the harder way.... yeah sure it bloody hurts during the class and maybe the day after, but I know that I'm improving on something I never had before. There are no short cuts in learning an authentic system, everything must be practiced in a methodical way, slowly building up and refining the exercises, movements, techniques, etc as the student improves and begins to explore within the system.

However, it's also quite hard for the instructor. Especially if he / she see's that the students aren't really putting the effort into the training - it would make them think Why should he / she bother teaching!

There is a martial arts class before mine, that I sometime watch through the door window.... all I see is the students sitting on the floor listening to the 'instructor' waffle on about this n that.... then they get up train again for about 10mins then the instructor needs to waffle on about something else.... it's complete and utter nonsense. But hey! as the old saying goes: "A fool and his money are soon parted".

Personally when I'm taking the class in my school, I practice the alongside the students with all the exercises Chy Sau, Kiu Sau, Saam Sing, Foundational Training, Basics, Basic Body Conditioning (Press-ups, Sit-ups, etc) for pretty much 2 hours solid apart from breaking away at times to correct students that are having difficulty - with only a few 20 - 30 seconds break for a gulp of water. Then this way, in my eyes, the student see's me putting in the effort and potentiallly helps to inspire and motivate them to put in the hard graft.

I like to make sure that after the 2 hours of my class, everyone including myself knows that they have trained. If the students don't come back then thats their perogative, but I certainly won't lower my standards for the sake of attracting more students.

[TaichiMantis]

The answer is that many instructors have had to provide more "martial arts lite" classes to survive. This is not necessarily a bad thing because many good physical and mental health benefits can still be reached through this type of training. This also gives them the base and means to also offer the hard core classes to those they choose to take on. If you as an instructor have the means etc. to be able to pick and choose who you want to teach, good for you!

Personally, I know I could never do, or would ever have time for a traditional training regimen. I started 2 years ago at age 43. However, my time in class and concepts I've learned have greatly helped my core strength and back problems. I found out through job and life stress my mind and body had a major disconnect. My kung fu training is helping to re-establish that connection through focus balance, breathing and relaxation of the body while doing techniques. However; there are certain techniques that I probably will never be able to do well due to my deteriorating lower lumbar region. I'll just take as much as I can and be proud that I tried.

This philosphy difference has reared it's ugly head between two sons of one of our grandmaster's. One son teaches old school and only wants to deal with the hard core students, the other takes a more inclusive approach in his school.

[Go Jun Long]

Did you guys also experience that as time has passed, a lot of schools began to lower their standards? I see a lot of students just don't need to practice as much as we had to, nowadays you can do your required pushups for your test with your knees touching the ground and the like. Where did 'quality' went? Why are people no longer interested training very hard - with all respect due to those who still do. I read an interview of a praying mantis master who refuse to teach in Hong Kong as he said, 'Because people are not really interested there in practicing anymore, they are more interested in enjoying life'.

I also had a close friend who had to close his school because he was teaching the way he learned his art and by the time he realized this was too hard for people today and began lowering his standars, he just finally had to close his school. People dropped out, he didn't have enough students and couldn't pay his lease. He threw parties, gave extra break during class ... etc. but it was just too late (shall I mention for us, instead of throwing parties, WE were thrown out if we didn't practice. ).

Did you guys also notice this trend? I wonder why this is the way of today and why is it heading this way to the future.

-X-

This is why I only teach privately now. I have no overhead no real expenses, and I can pick who ever I feel deserves to be taught and reserve the right to stop teaching anytime. I feel its the only way to do it now-a-days.

[X-Warrior]

Thanks all for the feedbacks.

Pakmei: That is exactly what my observation is, people just aren't interested in learning the old ways, most importantly PUTTING IN THE PHYSICAL EFFORT that it needs to advance to higher levels. You mainly see watered down versions of the old arts in many schools, like you said in the other class students just sit, listen and only train for a few minutes. This was the exact opposite when I learned some 20 years ago. We had to train 3-3 and half ours, NON-STOP!

I also think that schools nowadays afraid to train their students hard because of injuries related complaints and lawsuits, and this especially goes for sparring. Sparring, however is the highest training that advanced the students the most, but this has became an exceptional thing in schools. Insurance companies - and I don't know if this is also true to the UK, I am in the US - also charge a LOT of money for insuring you if you run sparring in your school. Laws, regulations and the insurance companies are just killing the real arts today. People just don't want to and also can't put in the pain they need to advance to high levels.

TaichiMantis: that's great that you started training at 43. Trust me you're just discovering the same exact thing any of us did when we started to learn martial arts, even at a young age: it gives you a healthier body, more confidence, calmness, reduces stress and balances the body and mind. Don't ever give up training thinking that you're too old for this. All too often I see young kids in their 20s giving up because they need a break from it for a while, what they don't realize the reason they failed is because they think they're 20 and they can do anything, therefore they put in too much too early. The important thing is never how much you put in, but rather being able to balance out what you also get out of it, and that is not limited to any age. If one can keep the two balanced, the person can learn martial arts for the rest of his/her life, at any age. I have a student who started at 48 and she is still very enthusiastic about it; she even trains at home on her own almost every day.

GoJunLong: LOL, I am also only teaching privately for the same exact reason. I only bother with those who are really interested in learning martial arts - I have also spent all too much time with those who are just there to socialize, disrupt and hold others back from advancing. With private teaching students concentrate more, they seem to be more interested and you also have the advantage of keeping them more interested.

---
I probably should start a new thread with this but I guess this subject can still fit in here: just a couple of days ago we had two police officers stabbed by a robber. The officers responded to a call for robbery, when they arrived the suspect tried to escape from the store and stabbed the two cops.

Now, anyone here can tell me, how ONE robber armed with a knife can stab TWO 'highly trained' police officers, armed with batons and guns? Has anyone here lately seen police defense training today? I would not go into a kindergarden with the training they get.

What's wrong in here is the same thing that becomes more and more true to schools in general: cops don't train enough to be able to use their skills - and certainly not the right way. I have seen several police training, most only receive the very low basics that is NOT sufficient for defense, and the recent sad incident just supports my statement.

-X-

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

i think the basic problem is dependant upon the general level of physical laziness on the part of americans. urbanized young people are somewhat less inclined to perform "honest hard work" like people half a generation ago. so we end up with more weaklings and sissies that end up needing to defend themselves against fewer brutes whom probably have been training since they were little.

i have a 'remedial' or 'whimp's routine' outlined for every one of my beginner and intermediate forms for people who just don't have what it takes. i developed these routines to keep my own physical conditioning at a near-peak performance level. you can do forms all your life and still be able to hurt someone. but if you can stretch and do pushups, crunches and some cardio training combined with your forms you'll have better students.

pork fat is everywhere. just weam your babies off of it.

[Go Jun Long]

i think the basic problem is dependant upon the general level of physical laziness on the part of americans. urbanized young people are somewhat less inclined to perform "honest hard work" like people half a generation ago.

Just to clarify, when you say Americans are lazy, its not just Americans believe me. When in China my Sifu always says that the Chinese are lazy people and when they train they want way too much too fast and not work hard to improve on it. Just a clarification

[X-Warrior]

I also agree, it's the trend world around. That is why I mentioned the master from Hong Kong who said he refuses to teach people in Hong Kong because they are lazy.

I myself have been half a world around and read martial art websites from other countries constantly. It's mostly a generation thing, not a regional. My observation is that though in America martial arts are not as accepted or popular than say in Europe. In the US most schools I've seen have low numbers per class 10-25 vs. in Europe, especially in East Europe classes are crammed, 40-70 students/class.

It is however still a mystery to me why, but I know some of the facts are the ones I mentioned above: laws, regulations and the fear of lawsuits for injuries. In America health care is EXTREMELY expensive (shall I say a COMPLETE RIP OFF!!!). In most East European contries it's FREE!!! If you hurt, you just check in at any clinic and they treat you. Insurance companies nonexistant there, they don't dictate what you get and how many thousands of $$$ you pay for your treatment, and you also can't sue for something YOU have decided to engage in. So people don't care much about getting hurt and schools are not reliable for you legally.

It's also true that in America the general population is less active and this includes kids too. This is mainly due to the fact that everyone drives everywhere, we over eat because food is very cheap compared to other contries, so we get fat and lazy - I'm an exception to this though, I train hard just about every day .

The thing though is that standard of living is getting better all around the world and people use this as an excuse NOT to be involved in anything heavy physical. I do think there are those who do like a great challenge though but these students are just harder to come across.