Bullshido Throwdown NYC

[Ray Pina]

Looks like there may be one March 20th, the Sunday right after I get back from Puerto Rico.

If this happens is anyone going? I think I'll give it a go.... a week of surfing some winter-time swells and eating fresh fish and what not, I think that will be a good state of mind to come back and fight with ... cool and calm.

[lkfmdc]

so, you're more than up to supporting the idiots over at Bullshido but haven't made a single MMA tri state training league open mat??

[red5angel]

before everyone starts picking on you Ray, I'll ask a question I think is probably on a few minds. Why is it you seem to be interested in these small side events but don't seem to be interested in the larger more official events?

This may be just the way it appears on this forum, but I know that huge thread on you wanting to fight those guys on this show, now this thread about the bullshido throwdown, while Ross poins out you haven't attended any of tri state training league events?

I'm just asking because I know someone is going to start in on you at some point about it so here's your chance to get that explanation out before the flame war begins

Frankly I don't care either way. If Bullshido were doing something in my area I'd go.

[shirkers1]

These "throwdowns" really are nothing more than guys from different skills and backgrounds getting together to exchange info and tactics, nothing more. It's not a MMA fight fest... Now guys get together and decide to spar etc with pre rules. IE no ground fighting, anything goes. head gear, gloves etc. Everything is decided between the guys involved. I made that mistake as well thinking it was just an underground fight fest or something but it's not... It's a chance for you to see how your skills work along the spectrum of other styles if you don't do that already.... Hope that shed some light on the situation...

[Ray Pina]

Hi Mr. Ross,

Are you referring to those sessions hosted at your gym? If so, those do sound great. I wanted to make the first one but was out of town for work. Then, I got your e-mail saying your San Da league is no more -- which is too bad because that was really a great thing you did for the community.

It's funny though, because that just happened to coincide with a decision of mine to focus on MMA ... I actually think it fits my style of fighting better. I like to strike the arms, I like the fight to continue. And striking the arm with 4 oz causes a different reaction than with 10 or 12oz, but monstly its just something I feel I need to do inside.

The one reason why I'm chosing to stay away, if this is referring to your sparring sessions, is because I know coaches will be there and I'm concerned about a few things: 1) While I'm fighting is someone watching ... because I think there are some technology differences. So why leak it out so soon.

2) This other one is also a major factor. I truly believe in my master/coach, if I go there and someone submits me of course I ask the question: how did you do that? And of course I'd be grateful to see and learn how. And what if the guy is a BJJ coach. Who has a bigger name right now?

So a year later I go out to fight some bigger fights and I get the same submission who gets the credit for it?

I know this all sounds very silly and ego centric. Its just that I truly believe in what I'm doing now and have made some big strides recently though I still need some work on the ground, no doubt about it (that's why I'm saying like 18 months before competing .... and to those that gave me hell about that, think about it: you can use the sling shot for 2,000 years. If I get the gun tomorrow and spend a day or two learning how to use it, those few days make a big difference)

So, I'm choosing to fight here and there to get some testing. I can show up to a Throwdown and fight some guys who have training and test a bit but nothing is official and I doubt anyone will see anything other than "boxing" and "lucky shots."

But Mr. Ross, please know that I highly respect what you're doing for your camp and the martial artists in the area in general. I would love to come buy and play with some of your guys in an unofficial, chinese martial artists getting together way, but want to stear clear of a room of MMA from various schools coming together with coaches and what not. Even for my fight in your league I showed up a lone ... my master just isn't into this sort of thing. Though he said he will be in my corner when I'm ready. I've stopped asking when that will be, I stopped telling him about this or that upcoming fight (like the August one in Fla.) ... I guess when I'm ready we'll both just know it.

I know this sounds funny and believe me at times it was frustrating as hell when I first came to this school ..."What do you mean I can't wear the school shirt and noone will be in my corner for this fight" ... but I not only understand it now, I apreciate it. My master looks after his students and never sends anyone to fight. Most of them are professionals (doctors, lawyers, well educated Chinese men and women). He still won't let any of us play with folks who visit the school, though I got lucky the other day for the first time because the cat showed up like 30 minutes early.

I know you had a master, so I'm hoping you can understand this. This is the most important relationship I have in my life.

[SevenStar]

The one reason why I'm chosing to stay away, if this is referring to your sparring sessions, is because I know coaches will be there and I'm concerned about a few things: 1) While I'm fighting is someone watching ... because I think there are some technology differences. So why leak it out so soon.

2) This other one is also a major factor. I truly believe in my master/coach, if I go there and someone submits me of course I ask the question: how did you do that? And of course I'd be grateful to see and learn how. And what if the guy is a BJJ coach. Who has a bigger name right now?

So a year later I go out to fight some bigger fights and I get the same submission who gets the credit for it?

it sounds like you are wanting to be the first pure cma guy - or at least the first pure e chaun guy - to enter mma. Is that true? If so, why?


So, I'm choosing to fight here and there to get some testing. I can show up to a Throwdown and fight some guys who have training and test a bit but nothing is official and I doubt anyone will see anything other than "boxing" and "lucky shots."

footage of the events are taken and posted... this means that people will be able to download and "study" you, no?

[rogue]

1) While I'm fighting is someone watching ... because I think there are some technology differences. So why leak it out so soon.

Thinks to self:
Maybe I could use that to back out of my death match challenges with Red. Maybe I could even trash talk guys like Seven and use it as an excuse not to fight him and get beaten 7 ways to Sunday. Yesss, I like this, I likesss this very much

[MasterKiller]

The trick is to be so good at your game that even if everyone knows what you're going to do they still can't stop you.

[Ray Pina]

Actually Seven, I am going to see if I could get a friend to film the fight. If that happens, win or lose I'll post it. People will always be able to study film, but I think that is different then spending an afternoon on a mat training and drilling with folks whose coaches are watching and participating.

I know it sounds silly.
...
Rogue, I'm not ducking from anyone. When it comes to fighting in official events its something I WANT to do and am STRIVING for but am taking my time and following my master/coach's instructions.

When it somes to what I CAN DO now against YOU or anyone else there is only one way to find.

I'll fight you under these conditions:
1) You put up $500
2) No gloves or gear
3) Respect the tap

I'm not saying I'm good. I'm just saying I'm willing to see how I compare to you.

Now I've offered this same thing to a few other guys who were attacking me personally. You may not be from NYC, but as some here know I travel often for work and as a writer I can say I need to cover this or that and can pretty much get anywhere within 6 months. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm just minding my own business trying to find some fights that can help me grow (the UFC show was just a shot in the dark at a chance). You're attacking me personally, so all I'm saying is, distinguish yourself from the pimply teenage internet warrior and do something, or just politely stop attacking me with words (can't believe this is coming from a "kung Fu" guy and directed at a "reality fighter"). The $500 is to just clear out all the guys who talk. If you're serious and think you'll win $500 is nothing, it's actually Christmas in Spring.

{edit: Rogue, just re-read your post. Not sure if you were just being funny or attacking me. If you weren't attacking me, I'm very sorry. If you are, then the above applies.

Master Killer: you are so very right. My last fight I was low-level. Now I would sai I'm low- to Mid-level perhaps aproaching Mid-level in 3 months (been training hard). Please understand, I highly respect Mr. Ross fighters. I want to save matches with them or fighters like them for when it counts.

Run of the day, lets compate matches, I'm always down for, because when you're in the fight, its different. Also, Mr. Ross, with his background and experience, no doubt has a very good eye. Most regular students do not.

I'm not worried about being stopped. I'm worried about being plagorized}

[red5angel]

Actually Seven, I am going to see if I could get a friend to film the fight. If that happens, win or lose I'll post it. People will always be able to study film, but I think that is different then spending an afternoon on a mat training and drilling with folks whose coaches are watching and participating

I think I'd be more concerned about video myself. A coach can watch that over and over and over again and get a lot more out of it.

[MasterKiller]

can't believe this is coming from a "kung Fu" guy and directed at a "reality fighter"

Rogue studies TKD, which means you made two mistakes when calling him a "reality fighter."

[rogue]

Ray if I was going to bust your ass I'd address you by name, sorry if you thought I was though. Anyway you don't want to compare yourself to an old **** like me, and why would I pay $500 to get beat on when I have more than enough people that do it for free.

Sadly the TKD is a thing of the past. Oh well, loving is better than fighting.

[Ray Pina]

MasterKiller, that's funny.

Red, I hear ya. I want to start collecting footage in general. As far as studying tape ... what does the guy see? Can he get the formula? (it's a lot easier to understand the technology in a seminar setting when things are broken down, asked about)

Hey, God willing E-Chuan will get a lot of footage in the future -- hopefully not to distant. But imagine if Gracie visited the schools of the men he would eventually face in the UFC and show them, Uh, guys, I'm going to take you down and break your arm or leg like this. Come feel it a few times and I'll see ya in the ring in two years. Don't you think those guys would have gone, "wow, we better do something about this?"

[red5angel]

I think having the footage is an excellent idea. I remember when I ran track and cross country we used to film every race and we'd watch themover and over again to try to correct form and whatnot.

however, I think in your case what I'm saying is, I wouldn't worry about what other people are going to be taking from you. If you're being true to yourself and your instructor then you have nothing to worry about, and like MK said, the goal is to get good enough that even when they know what you're gonna do, they can't stop you.

[Ray Pina]

Agreed.

Also, I want to fight MMA at this event and its certainly in the realm of possability that I get KOed or submitted -- I'm sure these guys aren't coming to help me make a highlight film

I'm going to give it the old college try and hopefully find someone to film so I can study. I'm getting pleased with my stand up, my ground game still needs work.
....

Rogue, I used to make fun of TKD until a 240lbs 3rd black almost broke my **** collarbone with a spinning cresent kick of all things (he hit the shoulder, a few inches down and he would have broken it no doubt).