christianity anti-intellectual?

[SevenStar]

"So, when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, if you go for all these
fairy tales, that "evil" woman convinced the man to eat the apple, but the
apple came from the Tree of Knowledge. And the punishment that was then
handed down, the woman gets to bleed and the guy's got to go to work, is the
result of a man desiring, because his woman suggested that it would be a
good idea, that he get all the knowledge that was supposedly the property
and domain of God. So, that right away sets up Christianity as an
anti-intellectual religion. You never want to be that smart. If you're a
woman, it's going to be running down your leg, and if you're a guy, you're
going to be in the salt mines for the rest of your life. So, just be a dumb
**** and you'll all go to heaven. That's the subtext of Christianity."
-- Frank Zappa



Who here agrees that christianity is an anti-intellectual religion and why?

also, let's consider what the tree was - it wasn't stated that's it's the tree of knowledge, as in knowing all things - it's the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

discuss.

[fa_jing]

somebody should lock this thread before things get too far out of hand...

[cerebus]

LOL! Ban Sevenstar! (Kidding ).

[SevenStar]

unlike others, I won't gripe if this gets deleted by gene or anyone else. That quote got me thinking, so I want to get some quick opinions before it gets baleted.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by fa_jing
somebody should lock this thread before things get too far out of hand...

deja vu...there must be a glitch in the matrix...

[cerebus]

Basically, yes, Christianity is anti-intellectual. People supend their commonsense and capacity fo reason so as to allow themselves to believe in things which defy the laws of nature (virgin births, water into wine, feeding a multitude with 4 fish, parting, the Red Sea, etc, etc) because it gives them a sense of self in the universe and the feeling of an omnipotent God looking over them which makes them feel better and less insecure than they otherwise would in a confusing and often hostile world.

To confront the universe as it is before us is more daunting. Many people are unable to accept the possibility that humankind might not have any greater spiritual purpose in the world than any other living creature. The thought that we really aren't all that significant on a universal level is something that many people can't take. Realization of the facts of the matter may not bring happiness, but I'd rather know the bleak truth than live a pleasant lie. Peace all.

[xingyiman]

I guess to me it is not knowledge itself that the Genesis story is opposing but rather the desire to be like gods, as the serpent says. The Devil's sin was desiring to be a god, or rather wanting to achieve is ultimate happiness without and apart from God. This is what the devil is attempting to goad Adam and Eve towards. Catholicism has always had a strong intellectual tradition in its theology (Aquinas, Anselm). There is a classic saying of Catholic theology which goes: Credo ut Intellagam, Intellego ut Credam----I believe so that I may understand, and I understand so that I may believe. The idea is that the intellect is one of the many gifts God gave so therefore it is to be used. Here is a link to a Papal encyclical on the relationship between faith and reason:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/JP2FIDES.HTM


Hope this helps!

[cerebus]

"The Devil's sin was desiring to be a god..."

Whereas in some other religions (such as Tibetan Buddhism) there are meditational exercises where the goal IS to become the god. But then, they're heathens who are going to hell and burn for all eternity, right?

[rogue]

7*, You do know you're asking this on a board where 3/4 of the people believe in chi blasts, that the founder of their style learned it from a talking bug, and that Karl Rove changed paper ballots for John Kerry by tapping into the time/space continuum? Not to mention that they also believe black feiyue makes them look cool.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by xingyiman
I guess to me it is not knowledge itself that the Genesis story is opposing but rather the desire to be like gods, as the serpent says.

You're right. I do say that a lot.

[SPJ]

Personally;

The desire to know or acquire wisdom is not wrong.

The basic question is to have faith and to follow His words.

God said to both that do not eat fruits out of the wisdom tree.

Of all the creatures on the earth, God takes care of them all let alone human.

All the good things are for people to enjoy.

We only have to have faith in Him and follow His words as the guide in life.

Satan will use all the good things in life as temptations to lure people away from God by not following His words.

God said do not eat the fruits.

Satan said why not and so and so.

Eve agreed. Even then tempted Adam to agree to eat the fruits.

The original sin is not about eating the forbidden fruits of wisdom or not.

It is about not following His words. Which is that you may enjoy everything else in the Garden of Eden except this tree.

So the temptation is that while you have 99.99% everything else, you only want this 0.01% thing GOD SPECIFICALLY SAID NOT TO.

So we lost the Garden of Eden.

We are in where we are now.

[AndyM]

Originally posted by SPJ
So we lost the Garden of Eden.

We are in where we are now.

Thank heavens for something so relatively simple.

[rogue]

Meanwhile as the discussion goes on, 7* sneaks into the distracted posters homes and short sheets their beds.

[CaptinPickAxe]

I don't think its anti-intellectual, its a crutch. Just as any religion. People are scared ****less of death and spend their whole life trying to justify thier existance. It goes against human nature (striving to be something, to have meaning) to be nothing more than a random equation...i.e. we have no meaning.

I think it's anti-intellectual in the sense that we refuse to come to the reality that death may be just that...death...the end of exsistance.

It's man's interpretation of the word of god that is anti-intellectual, in the sense that religion is used to insight fear and control. We are taught that if we rebel, we go against the word of god...and they have a place for people like us.

[David Jamieson]

Being a secular humanist and always willing to point a finger at the somethings amiss factor, I don't think it's much of a stretch to see this story as containing archetypal imagery that in turn symbolically represented an understanding of the way things are or were regarding the transistion of man from unthinking servile being to sentient being.

The adam and eve story creation myth is just that and like any other myth is considered by some to be a reasonable explanation of things that are otherwise not clearly understood.

Don't forget that in that same passage, the "gods" worry that we may become "like them". Does this mean that the gods themselves are genderfied? Do male gods hold power over female gods? How come there is a plural form of god in this section.

Also, this is concerning Judaeism and Islam as well because they all contain the same creation myth.

And, finally, although Jesus was a rabbi, he was not a Pharisee and in fact got into a bit of trouble with them as we can recall from our last episode. The new testament, or the gospels do not deal with history so much as they deal with moving forward and evolving into higher beings not only through faith but through our regular daily dealings with one another. So, in that respect, I would think intellect is most certainly required.

Do people practice religiosity more than the tenets of their faith?
In my opinion, yes they do and in the doing, they actually develop schism at the core.

But then, whoever said there was great reason in the practice of organized religion? Most people discover their own siprituality by themselves and go to church to gain community and validation of their newound belief. Others are raised in it and don't know any better.

Anyway, Lock her up! THis thread is an outrage! lol