The Shaolin Grandmasters Text

[tattoed monk]

And why isn't the author more forward about who he or she is?

most of shaolin will prefer not to have credit for their acomplishments. read the book and you will understand.

[tattoed monk]

many styles have absorbed other forms to enhance their style and to understand how to combat them

Curious, but which temple were these Shaolin priests supposed to be from?

Just wondering, because the list of core styles seems like kind of an odd collection:

Southern Tiger (which has absorbed Shaolin's Leopard, Eagle Claw, and Monkey styles)
Crane (both White Crane and Black Crane)
Snake
Dragon (both Southern Dragon and Northern Dragon)
Northern Praying Mantis
Southern Praying Mantis
Pak Mei (White Eyebrow)
Wing Chun (Blessed Springtime)

Also, is there any more info about all this that can be found outside of the book? What makes it different than any other "Shaolin" book on the market? Are there any photos/videos or other information out there about the OSC?

[tattoed monk]

There is very little serious talk in these forums. Is there anyone out there who is really interested in real Shaolin kungfu or any chinese kungfu ? Or do you all just want to sit there on your asses and poke fun at something that you never have a chance to acheive?...... What is that you ask?..... to be a Shaolin or a real master of kung fu!

[MasterKiller]

Personally, I'm just wondering what your tat-toe looks like. Must be a heck of a bunyan.

[Budajoe]

Well, this is quite an interesting tread. But I want to go back to the issue if this book or its authors are "valid" or bogus. Not that I claim to know one way or the other, but hopefully I can find out or at least present another opinion on the subject.

So, I just got this book in the mail, and started to reading it. Only about 25 pages in so I can't really comment.

For guys like me, who in my case, know very little about Shaolin, their history, their pratices, origins, and religions, I don't really know what's "real" and what's not real. People like me would be the kind of buyer this book would be targeting, assuming of course, this book is bogus.

My background in martial arts in really only in Wing Chun. But, as many of you here, I always found "Shaolin" to be quite intriguing, from, dare I say it, the media and what have you. Flying monks, super powers, great white beards...you know, the good old school stuff! So I've watched a few too many kung fu flicks, but hey, haven't we all?

So, I will give it a complete read and will be sure to post an honest review. Take it for what's it worth, and remember, I'm no authority on this subject matter. I haven't read much else on Shaolin; a newbie shall you say. These will just be my personal opinions and observations.

But this whole thing about the authors not coming out and revealing themselves...I don't know about that. I'm kind leaning with what someone else hinted at earlier, if you go and release a book, and people question the validity of it, wouldn't you want to stand behind it?

If most of your life was spent devoted to these practices, and the perservation of them, and you felt compelled enough to release such a piece, wouldn't you want to defend that above all else. Not as a matter of pride or to "prove" anything, but rather as simply standing behind your product, or for that matter, yourself.

Taking this kind of attitude is fine, but it's this kind of attitude that makes people question things and react in a negative manner. And while it was somewhere mentioned that it you don't like it, then don't read it or buy it or believe it, but then that's what people will start doing. Ok, but then what's been accomplished? The exact opposite of what this type of book is trying to do, to perserve or pass on the history or secrets of Shaolin, or what have you.

I think "just a guy" mentioned earlier that the choice is yours, or ours, in this case. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy the book or not, and it's also your choice whether or not you should read it. Nobody is twisitng your arm here. While true,
I just gotta say that when you release a book like this on the subject matter of Shaolin, and you conceal who you are, people will be skeptical and for good reason. The person that mentioned the UFO analogy has a point. No proof, or at least not revealing who you are, will only, at least in my eyes, diminish you in the "real" world of historical texts, martial arts books, or things of this matter.

I believe, as a consumer, that if you pay good money for something, and you have something critical or postive to say about it, with good reason and explanation of course, you should definately voice your opinion and thoughts. Why? So that others, like myself can look at the big picture or at least have other opinions to compare to. If I keep hearing this book is crap, continously, from multiple people, I must suspect they actually have good reason for their opinions.
And, if I must say, the general tone of this whole discussion is lenaing toward the negative, or bogussness of this peice.

But then again, when we watch those old kung fu movies, we know they're bogus, it's entertainment, for fun. For the imagination. So if it turns out this book is just that; so be it, consider it another form of entertaiment, or fiction.
But if that's the case, I just wish they presented it as such in the first place, and not as a serious undertaking of the matter. Misleading people intentionally will eventually come back to you. Karma is a *****! I any case, I'll post my review shortly after I finsih it, which may take a while. In the meanwhile, I hope that what I've said is of no offense to anyone posting here and are simply my views on this matter. To finally conclude my tedious ramble, I leave with a couple of quotes:

1. A man stays wise as long as he searches for wisdom; as soon as he thinks he has found it, he becomes a fool.

2. Wisdom is found only in truth

3. If you are already there, you probably have not left.

And lastly...

4. The wise will spot the moment when the opponent, unable to convince, attempts to confuse.

Peace to all!!!!

Budajoe

[Brad]

No named source basically makes any kind of historical claims worthless as to what was practiced at the temple, etc. so I think anything concerning the history or historical claims can be ignored.

many styles have absorbed other forms to enhance their style and to understand how to combat them

That still doesn't answer the question. Those aren't exactly the most diverse group of styles they could've chosen from. Why not longfist, dog boxing, shui jiao, and taiji? Any combination of styles can be inserted into that and make just as much sense. Also, why would they need to defend against these styles specifically? Some have never been particularly common or even practiced in the same area of China (or developed at the same time).

There is very little serious talk in these forums. Is there anyone out there who is really interested in real Shaolin kungfu or any chinese kungfu ? Or do you all just want to sit there on your asses and poke fun at something that you never have a chance to acheive?...... What is that you ask?..... to be a Shaolin or a real master of kung fu!

There's actually quite a bit of serious talk on these boards (among the joking)... you don't seem to be too interested in serious discusion though. Half @ssed answers, ignoring serious points, and insulting people... If you're not going to put any real effort into arguing your point, then don't expect people to take you seriously. And if the author doesn't care enough about his writting to put his name on the book, he really doesn't deserve to be defended by his followers. Signing your name to something you wrote isn't about making yourself famous, it's about backing up what you say.

[Gargoyle again]

Well, with great dread and hesitation I'd like to post a comment...

As a former student of some years with the Shaolin group in discussion here (I think I recognize "just a guy"'s writing style <waves>), I'd like to add a few comments, take it for what you will...

Martially, they are very serious and the most highly skilled individuals and instructors I have trained with. I've been full-time in a handful of different styles and schools, and personally witnessed scores of others, and my sifus of Shaolin I have the utmost respect and praise for. Any current students are in good hands.

In sparring with other partners and styles over the years, it has always been my bread 'n butter training from Shaolin that I feel is my most valuable core skillset. To say that the information and instruction is platinum level would be an insult to platinum

Tradition, lineage, and authenticity I will not comment upon at all, simply because I didn't live in NYC, and am not old enough to have met the original lineage of their old days. I have only their words, and the great training they imparted.

I have great respect for some of the posters on this forum (having been a member since dirt was invented) and hate to see knee-jerk trashings of what seems to be an honest attempt at opening the doors into this group's information.

Truth or fiction. The world is not absolute, everything is a shade of grey, and their information and history I'm sure lies somewhere within the two extremes.

Your friendly neighborhood Gargoyle.

[shadowlin]

I have the book, and I must say that this group is a lot closer than most to the reality of history. They aren't even affiliated with my lineage, which makes it so exciting to read and say "yeah, that's right!". No doubt there are a few errors, and I noticed some unsolicited and unnecessary opinions, but overall, a first rate book.

Spend the $$, it's worth it.

As a side note, I find it interesting to see which people buy the book and look at it rather than "judge a book by it's cover". Shows you who is worth paying attention to, and who is just a cynic with self-limiting ideas and the righteousness to go around forcing others to be just like them, because God forbid anyone try something they wouldn't.

If you have read it, and hate it, fine. If you haven't even bothered to look, then that's ok too. But don't act like an expert when you've no clue what you're talking about.

[Royal Dragon]

Hee, hee hee, 3 posts --- > joined on the 20th of this month

LOL!!

[Sal Canzonieri]

I have the book, and I must say that this group is a lot closer than most to the reality of history. They aren't even affiliated with my lineage, which makes it so exciting to read and say "yeah, that's right!". No doubt there are a few errors, and I noticed some unsolicited and unnecessary opinions, but overall, a first rate book.

Spend the $$, it's worth it.

As a side note, I find it interesting to see which people buy the book and look at it rather than "judge a book by it's cover". Shows you who is worth paying attention to, and who is just a cynic with self-limiting ideas and the righteousness to go around forcing others to be just like them, because God forbid anyone try something they wouldn't.

If you have read it, and hate it, fine. If you haven't even bothered to look, then that's ok too. But don't act like an expert when you've no clue what you're talking about.

This book is total baloney, if you don't know baloney from real kf history, then that's too bad, bad this book is baloney.
Any KF scholar that does loads of research will tell you that.
Don't want to believe it?
Either you have alterior motives or are just plain ignorant.

[shadowlin]

This book is total baloney, if you don't know baloney from real kf history, then that's too bad, bad this book is baloney.
Any KF scholar that does loads of research will tell you that.
Don't want to believe it?
Either you have alterior motives or are just plain ignorant.

right, my ulterior motives... you know... those ones where I somehow make millions off of unsuspecting KF practitioners who buy a book from someone else...

About the book being balogna, that's a matter of opinion. You nor I are old enough to judge history objectively. You base what you know off your oral tradition and your research, meanwhile I do on mine.

Speaking of outside research, I happen to practice with a friend who has been doing pakua for nearly thirty years, and he has a lot of books by world reknowned martial artists like Sifu Jerry Allen Johnson. Amazingly enough, they confirm a lot of our oral tradition.

edit - for those who are looking for logical and reasonable history for Shaolin, the book presents very sound arguements and cross-references to other materials. Being that the group remains anonymous, they don't stand to gain much selling a few books, as compared to the thousands of hours it must have taken to write the book. It is much closer to an academic work than other similar books. Only problem is, you could be easily offended by it's pro-buddhist stance. It very controversially claims you can't be Shaolin without being Ch'an Buddhist. All relligion set aside, the book is fascinating, and well worth a little $$.

If in the end, you hate it. Well, fires are fun too. And there's eBay.

[DRleungjan]

This book is total baloney, if you don't know baloney from real kf history, then that's too bad, bad this book is baloney.
Any KF scholar that does loads of research will tell you that.
Don't want to believe it?
Either you have alterior motives or are just plain ignorant.

That wasn't too nice or scholarly.

What IS history?

History is part oral, part evidence an part opinion and speculation. As I follow this thread I am a little surprised, to say the least, that very knowledgable people take certain expressions and stances to certain subjects. To me there are no bad books only narrow minds. Even the father of modern history, Herodotus, based his 'Histories' on a smattering of oral legends and traditions to lend credence to the concrete evidence that he already possessed.

Until we are able to prove that people have 'hidden' agendas to what they speak about who are we to judge? If a book makes us question then has it served its purpose? This I believe to be so. I am currently reading the book in question. Am I wasting my time? To some of you the answer is a resounding YES. To me however it's an insight into the same subject that we try to discuss over and over. Can we discredit the authors with being bogus? What gives us the power to do so? For all we know they might have something that we don't. On the other hand, I don't take any of their info to heart. Like any good researcher I just look at the matter objectively and cross-reference from there.

History is something wonderful to study....it teaches us not to make the same mistakes as our forebears. Yet that's exactly what we do over and over again. Is there an absolute truth when it comes to history? Hell no....there are things that we will NEVER find out and all we can do is just wonder. It's sad when I see so much bickering and trashing when in fact we can all work together to see if we can find part of the truth. Why do I state the above? Well within the Wing Chun circles we have the same childish attittude toward our histories and legends and it really irks me.

Just two taels from the doctor.

[Shaolindynasty]

This book keeps getting recommended to me by amazon.com so I bought........The Monk from Brooklyn instead.

[richard sloan]

Can we discredit the authors with being bogus? What gives us the power to do so?

an orthodoxy of transmission allows us to do so.

it's bogus.

[DRleungjan]

hmmm....orthodoxy of transmission....still gives us NO right to judge others or their work. Anyways if a book makes you smirk (in sarcasm that is) and ask questions then I believe it is doing it's job. And if it was bogus why argue on it? Dismiss it and keep on walking *shrugs*. I have said it and written it countless times...truth is truth no matter where one looks to....so be ever aware because truth usually comes from the most unlikliest of places. Yes, even from a book that is being trashed as I post.

It is little wonder in my mind why many of us martial artists and enthusiasts never seem to pass above a certain level in our quest for mastery.