Jason Putman

[Samuel Browning]

So Reis writes on Amazon.com:

"Large, reliable news services have validated many of the facts presented in the book. Only one source - a small weekly (circ. 9,000) in the southern United States - questioned Bannon's intelligence adventures, doing so without interviews, research or qualified reportage and therefore it is irrelevant to an educated discussion of the verifiable facts presented in the book. "

This assertion is incorrect based on reading Boykin's article. (reprinted above) He interviewed Bannon, looked at his documents, and went to Interpol for their comment on the matter. Then Reis claims that Boykin did not do any research. Bull****. The problem that Boykin uncovered is that Bannon did not even have a document with a signature or on Interpol letterhead dispite working for them for almost two decades. (1981 to at least 1998) not even a pay stub from Interpol itself or the Belgian Gendarmerie, his supposed cover job.

As far as large reliable news services go, Bannon appeared on a number of radio shows (famed for their pre appearance investigations, sarcasm intended) and in the pages of the Charlotte Observer which only apparently obtained and printed Interpol's denials of Bannon's claims AFTER their article accepting Bannon's claims was printed.

Generally speaking the verified facts Reis refers to involve information that does not establish Bannon is who he says he is. The North Koreans torture people in their prison camps, using water torture (forcing water down a person's throat, and then applying force to their stomachs.) Bannon claimed he witnessed this while in a North Korean camp, a news source later commented that the NKs were carrying out such a form of torture which has been practiced by many different governments. Such information is claimed to prove Bannon was imprisoned by the NKs ignoring that he could have learned of such torture by reading another earlier news account, or simply guessed correctly one of the many ways the NK's abused their prisoners.

Reis's Amazon endorsement is a hatchet job on Boykin's article and deliberately makes mistatements about his article, raising questions about Reis's reliability as a source of information.

[Goldenmane]

To quote an American with great insight into human nature, A sucker is born every minute, so people will always fall for some stupid scam. Bullshido and KFM are small potatos in the great big internet stew pot. You really have to take the fight back to the media folks who are not vetting the BS they put on the air. If Bannon is telling tall tales then that information should be sent to the media outlets that he's listed and not only on Bullshido.

You're right on this. But the information can't be sent without it being discovered, and that is the point, I think, right now of continuing public discussion. Keep the investigation transparent and open, so when the final results are in and the media people get them in the mail, then turn around to maybe finally do some checking of their own... well, the whole **** thing is on public record and there are hundreds of people in the MA community who can say, "yes, I was there, I followed the investigation and the discussions about it, and it seems pretty clear cut."

The key, I think, is following through to a resolution of the issue. It doesn't matter so much whether Bannon's telling porkies or not. That's certainly the main aim of this investigation, and it shouldn't be forgotten. But the larger impact is going to come at the end of it all, when it is resolved and all those people who were involved either directly as investigators or indirectly as commentators or even observers can sit back and say, "well, look at what we can do if we put our minds to it."

We all know the pleasure that comes from seeing something to completion. The lion's share of this pleasure rightly belongs to those, like Mr. Browning, who are actively pursuing the investigation. When it is finally resolved one way or the other, the rest of us should buy them a beer down the pub in recognition. However, I expect that everyone who has participated will at that point feel *something* positive.. and that may serve to increase the push against this flood of BS that's threatening to drown us.

That all sounds kinda sappy and stuff, and isn't really making clear what I started out to get across, but what the hell. Restate: There's too much bullshido (to steal a term). I'm personally getting very tired of having to wade through it. I'm tired of repeatedly having to explain just exactly what's wrong with statements like "he's got a black belt.. he must be deadly" and all those other ones that come out of the mouths of the ignorant masses, many of whom should know better than to get their information from movies. Nobody in the general media repeats BS endlessly about football, or motor racing, or history... well, perhaps they do, but few of the people actually involved in motor racing come out with comments on the level of "martial arts isn't about fighting" and deep down believes it, let alone manages to make a living peddling it.

We are involved in a pasttime, and industry, that has grown up and thrived in modern times by eating its own excreta, and feeding it to its offspring. People who "have been studying the martial arts for ten years" still believe extremely stupid things. Witness the number of people out there who hold with religious fervour to the idea that 'kung fu was invented by the Shoalin monks'. Many of these people take this idea to even more insane and delusional extremes, and insist that all martial arts everywhere, every system that was ever devised, have their roots in a bunch of exercises taught to a load of fat tired guys in a temple by a wandering Indian guy who created tea by cutting off his own eyelids and bored a hole in the wall of a cave by staring at it for nine years. Go tell those guys that they're a little screwy in their view of history, physics, biology, and human nature and they'll get all huffy... and then go back to teaching poor unsuspecting fee-paying ignorant students this garbage.

Now, I'm in no way altruistic about this. I don't, in fact, actually give a **** if people want to allow themselves to be ripped off. But I don't want to be ripped off myself, and in essense making it harder to find the real good information that I'm so interested in is a form of ripping me off. Breeding masses of propaganda-replicating halfwits means the BS just keeps piling up. And it makes my life harder.

I'm lazy. So sue me.

Plus, of course, I like being able to own big sharp pointy metal things and not get hassled by the cops for it. I like what I do, and I'm not keen on it being made more difficult to do it.

Here's another aspect of this issue: We've all come across the so-called "Martial Arts Documentaries"... and we've all either chuckled at them or hung our heads in despair. You knw what I'm talking about - the ones that insist that people kicking each other in the balls constitiutes one of the ten deadliest systems in the world, or that dudes dancing around and yelling a lot are serious and deadly fighters...

How many decent documentaries are there on the subject that is so close to our hearts? Not many, and they are vastly outnumbered by the ones that are 99% rubbish. These latter are about as documentary as Reefer Madness. I love watching documentries, but more so when they are real than when they are fiction pretending to be real. So called 'documentary makers' always seem to go find the most enthusiastic half-wit they can find and bill them as an 'expert'.. would it be so bad if these people were dragged out in public and shot for defrauding everyone?

Holy goodness, I'm on a roll on this issue. I've gone from a simple premise of, "hey, it'll be interesting to see what comes of this investigation" to a **** crusade rant. Someone pour some ice water on me, cool me down.

I'll have a break and come back when I'm a little more calm.

[Goldenmane]

Gene:

gdm: For the most part, I will sticky announcements whenever they involve our non-profit organization The Tiger Claw Foundation. This is because it is a charitable venture, and that requires a bit more effort. Donations are more difficult than sales. But the thread is staying up, so I really don't think you should worry about it dying. And as for writers not posting, well, I'm a writer too, obviously, so true that some do, but many don't. If I didn't hold this position, I probably wouldn't be so active here.

Fair enough, and good points. I've been a member here for years, but never posted a great deal because my main dealings lie elsewhere. I post a lot over there, for mcuh the same reason.

My hope is that this is resolved on way or the other, eventually. It would be interesting to run either a confirmation or refutation, once all the data is compiled and some conclusion is reached. If it is a fraud, it would make a fascinating article to chart the history of it, especially since it duped such jounralists as NPR. If it can't be debunked, well, that wouldn't make for as interesting an article perhaps, but still worthy of publication, if handled properly.

Indeed, and agreed.

rogue:

**** I think I've been tricked into keeping this thread going by Goldenmane!

Hehehe... my plan is working perfectly...

[Goldenmane]

...but never mind that. It doesn't matter that rogue has rebelled against the great plan to keep this thread alive, and that everyone else is off doing strange things to themselves over the BL thread hijackings...

The important thing is that someone can be bothered to post even this puerile bulls*it to keep the spirit alive.. or maybe just to annoy everyone and have KFM'ers plan on hunting him down for impertinence.

It's pretty hard to rant effectively when everyone ignores you.. maybe I should take that as a life lesson.

[GeneChing]

I have a very vague memory of Boykin's call on Bannon's story. It was clear that he had an agenda since his line of questioning and his tone was quite pointed, which is somewhat slanted journalism, but I'd be lying if I said I haven't done the same thing in my own work on occassion. By that, I'm not trying to invalidate the invalidator, but it's important to realize that he seemed to be after a foregone conclusion. I seem to remember that we talked for some time over the phone - it was a one-shot interview - and after his interview, I wondered what I had said - to be honest again, I wasn't as concerned about his position on Bannon, I was more concerned about if he had managed to fluster me with his line of questioning and made me contradict myself. That seemed to be his strategy at the time. I didn't see the article until some time later when I stumbled on it doing a vanity search (I have this running bet with some buddies of mine on vanity serach counts). To be honest once more, I had forgotten about it. Ultimately, I felt he represented my opinion on the topic at the time fairly.

[rogue]

It's pretty hard to rant effectively when everyone ignores you.. maybe I should take that as a life lesson.

That'll teach you for tricking me into popping this thread to the top. **** you did it again.

It would be funny if the Bannon story is mostly on the up and up. I've heard some almost as fantastic as Bannons.

[Goldenmane]

... and now I have to do it again, drunk, and with none of my usual sublety and suave sophistication.

I was thinking about this today, and I know it isn't going to be something that's resolved quickly... but I don't really know if letting the thread drift off into the outer wilderness until some more info comes through on the case is the best bet, or if we are better off just rambling complete nonsense at each other in the hopes of keeping the thread alive over the months it is going to take for people from another board to pursue this investigation.

I don't know. I personally am going to keep an eye on this thing, in the possibly vain hope that more people will start to make it a part of thier lives to look critically at and openly question things.

Hell, maybe rogue will reply to this... i know I haven't really given him a hook or anything, but maybe for old time's sake...

[Samuel Browning]

Dear Mr. Browning,

Thank you for contacting the Press and Information Office in Washington
DC.
Here is the written account of the voicemail I left this morning.

I contacted a DST employee this morning and she did not find any Sidelle
Rimbaud in DST's files.

To obtain a death certificate, please write a letter to state the demand
and make sure to write the first name and last name of the deceased, as
well as the date of her death. Send the letter to:
Direction des Operations Funebres
380 rue St Pierre
13005 Marseille

Please make your demand in French if possible as few people speak
English in the department.

Hope this helps. Do not hesitate to contact us if you need further
assistance.

--
Cordialement / Regards,
Service de Presse et d'Information / Press & Information Office
Ambassade de France / Embassy of France
Washington, DC

Last week I contacted the French Embassy and asked Amaury Laporte, (202-944-6061) If the DST had any record of David Bannon's fiancee being killed in the line of duty. I gave them her first and last name and indicated that she may have been killed in Marceille in the early 1980s. This is their reply. In Jason Putnam's on-line Inside Kungfu article he indicated "Rimbaud's grave, and [the] Directorate of Territorial Security plaque honoring her death in the line of duty, are in La Treille, a small town in the hills behind Marseilles." Putman and Bannon are saying that the DST has publically acknowledged Rimbaud's death in the form of a public plaque, therefore they cannot now claim that the DST has any motive to lie and say that they do not know who this fallen employee is. To put it mildly this really hurts the credability of Bannon's account.

[rogue]

Samuel, thanks for keeping this updated and thanks for the effort you're putting in.

[cerebus]

Mister Browning, on behalf of many honest, truth-respecting martial artists throughout the world, I hereby confer upon you the grade of Blackbelt in "Research-Fu".

Bullshyte artists of the MA world, fear Mister Browning. He will OWN your azzes!

Awesome research guy!

[GeneChing]

Once your research is conclusive, you'll must compile it into a submission for publication. BTW, we just updated our writer's guidelines - check it out and let me know if you have any questions.

[Samuel Browning]

Sure, I would be happy to write an article once Bullshido's investigation is mostly concluded, though there are enough details to take us into at least October before we finish. Hey, this investigation stuff takes time to do correctly. Gene, anyway I could get a complimentary copy of the original Bannon article? I have a fetish for checking details.

[YinYangDagger]

I have a fetish for checking details.

Me too. I was kicked out of elementary school for playing gynecologist.

uhh, anyway, this should put it back up to the top

[GeneChing]

Make sure it's all right before submitting it. We don't want someone calling BS on you calling BS. PM me your mailing address.

[David Jamieson]

well, all stories aside, the slave trade on planet earth is alive and well by all accounts and it takes many forms, some more veiled than others.

while the problem is huge in the third world according to the National Geographic Society who as recently as 2003 did a feature on slave trading, It does not have a lot of apparency to the western nations.

There is also indentured slavery throughout the world still practiced. Many examples even in Western cultures, generally within ethnic enclaves. For instance, factory workers brought across the border into the states from mexico by criminal organizations. Sure, the people get work, but it costs them far more to get over to the states to get it and they wind up in a slavery type situation where they owe the criminal organization for years before they actually are free from their contract with them if ever.

The same things were happening in other communities as well and in recent history too.

So, is Bannon real? Well, if not, he's in over his head making up stories and co-opting a theme to launch himself into some fantasy realm.

If he is for real, I would deem his focus to be entirely limited and perhaps he might want to undertake doing some real exposure wor for the problem instead of just selling his own over the top story again and again on the marketing power of lurid intrigue.

anyway...carry on, I'm still reading with interest!

cheers