Rank in CMA

[PT-Kali]

What is the traditional rank structure within the CMA? I notice some schools adopting the colored belt system, typical of the Japanese/Okinawan arts.

[norther practitioner]

There really wasn't any...

Some will say Student-Deciple-teacher... etc..

Now China has a Duan system.. goes up to 9 I think

Shaolin is adopting the same system.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by sc_guy

- Any black belt student will require some national CMA tournament record either the 1st or 2nd place.

I can't see that one being adopted by alot of organizations. Is anyone currently using it?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

well thats a fairly idiotic rule isnt it? surely you're rank should be determined by how proficient you are, not by how well you do in a tournament which, in america at least, is probably going to be non contact (unless of course its judo/san shou/etc)

Anything above the 3rd degree will require "workshop", "public performance", "national team trainer", "book or video tape producer", "CMA root searching tour organizor".

ok.... care to explain how making video tapes is indicitave of your skill as a martial artist?

[Chang Style Novice]

I think he was talking about wushu/forms competition, although I have no way to know for sure.

Anyway, the only important rank (to me) in CMA is the rank I develop after a long hard workout. Then I shower, wash my clothes, and have to earn rank all over again.

[Water Dragon]

I would like to eventually get a black belt through the ACSCA, and I like the rule structure. It forces you to go out and become the best. To fulfill the requirements, I've started training Muay Thai and boxing so that I can be competetive on the San Shou team. I've also started BJJ again so that I can try my hand at the MMA scene. <-- My current MT/BJJ teacher is 31-1 in MMA

Yes, the requirements are tough, and no, not everyone will ever get their black belt, but that's why I love SC so much. It keeps it real. Not everyone should have their black belt. Not everyone deserves it. I may never get it myself. That's OK. As long as I keep improving. What's important is that the art is able to remain legitimate. You know how threads always pop up about is your art effective? Notice how the SC guys never speak on those threads? That's because it's a non-issue for us just as it is for most combat sports. The art is effective because of necesity.

Just my $ 0.02

[Ikken Hisatsu]

for who? the general public would have little to no idea as to whether a video looked fake or not. surely the people grading him should be able to ascertain his skill without an advert?

as for the tournaments, I agree, it would be a good way to gauge if someone is ready to go up in rank. but what about say wing chun? you would enter wing chun students into a kickboxing match? tai chi chuan? a kickboxing match is hardly an indication of overall skill, considering its lack of throws, locks, takedowns, and groundwork. so then what, they have to win a judo match and a wrestling match as well? I know that in my country, to enter a kickboxing tournament, you have to be a kickboxer. A non practitioner turning up at a tournament wanting to fight his own way is pretty disrespectful. Maybe things like that dont matter in America.

[PT-Kali]

Thanks guys, a lot of information for my question....I was really looking for the "traditional" rank structure, say before Dr. Kano started the colored belt system.

I have pros and cons regarding using the martial arts as a "sport". I'm sure along with the SC guys, our Dumog has to be watered down before we go all-out full-tilt or someone would die. We do have full-contact stick fighting (some bouts without ANY protection), and of course we have to use training blades or it would look like we went through a blender (very messy).

I'm interested in the SC, Water Dragon, any further elaborations on how you guys train/spar?

[Chang Style Novice]

You know how threads always pop up about is your art effective? Notice how the SC guys never speak on those threads?

Not counting this post and others like it, natch.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by sc_guy
I'm talking about the San Shou, or San Da tournament not even the sport SC, Judo, or Karate, TKD light contact tournaments. The idea is to force your students to enter the "full contact" real world. The "kick boxing" tournament will be a good starting point if San Shou or San Da tournaments are not available around your area.

I agree with that. However, not everybody is a national level fighter. making them compete is one thing, but requiring them to be national champs is quite another.

[SevenStar]

IMO, that's the way it should be.

[PT-Kali]

I agree with you both, 7* and SC....below are the words of our Grand Tuhon (Master) of the Pekiti-Tirsia system, GH Leo Gaje:

"THE TEST OF FIRE BEFORE THE RING OF FIRE The Pekiti-Tirsia Pitbulls will hold an Special Mastery Instructor Camp to be held in Texas by the year 2004 sometime in April. This mastery camp will be a special camp because this will upgrade the existing instructors in enhancing their technical skills and renew every bit of techniques that will be replaced by new sets of techiques under the principle of non-couterability. The 2004 will be the beginning of a new era of Pekiti-Tirsia breed under the Pekiti-Tirsia Pitbulls principles of fighting and principles of full contact without headgear and without body armour. We will bring our technology to the highest level of competence that for every Pitbull extremely trained will come as the only FEW-THE PROUD AND THE LEADER. Those who claim to be Pekiti-Tirsia and will not and cannot take the Test of Fire cannot enter into the Ring of Fire. We are extracting the pretenders, the braggarts, the talk too much personality,undedicated, the assumming idiots, and the cowards. If you don't belong to our criterias and you don't have the Pitbull blood, you better drop now or else you will have no place in the RING OF FIRE. We are a fighting art, we don't commercialize, we don't promote by the hours and by the day so become a Guro or a Tuhon, we promote you inside the RING OF FIRE. Jim Hermann of Houston has accepted to be the head of the FORCE-RECON PITBULLS. Only those that can pass the TEST OF FIRE can be tested into the Ring of Fire. In Pekiti-Tirsia system to be the best superior effective and deadly is the goal I institute under the program conducted during the seminar round up all over the US and Europe. There is no second man in combat, it must be you and you alone standing on the road to paradise. WE made our Pekiti-Tirsia Pitbulls grilled into the highest level of training forcing them to quit and those who will stay can be the best, ilimination of the unfit"

[Ikken Hisatsu]

So you're saying that you could judge a persons degree of skill at tai chi chuan by how well they do at kickboxing?

I agree that people should have to prove they are ready for their next rank, yellow belt or black belt or whatever. And I agree they should have to show this ability- but I do NOT believe that entering into a tournament with alien rules is a good indication of that ability. our instructor says that 80% of our grading is done before we step onto the floor. He watches us in class, he trains with us, spars with us, talks with us- We dont have to fight a stranger to prove ourselves to someone who already knows our abilities and limitations.

[PT-Kali]

Ikken, I see your point also. As I stated earlier, I have pros and cons on "competition".

I do, however, believe that some type of fighting with a "stranger" is beneficial. We all know everyone in class, and we feel no inherent danger. To stand face-to-face with a total stranger under any rules will get the blood flowing, on the street most of the time you don't know the a$$hole you're about to confront with.

Anyway, Ikken, good points on your post!