how does choy lay fut deal with wing chun

[wahh]

hi,

i was wondering if any choy lay fut practiioner can tell me how they would deal with a wing chun fighter. it seems that both are complete opposites of each other. while choy lay fut is characterized by wide sweeping motions, wing chun has more linear movements.

Several wing chun people have told me that they would close the gap and then do the usual wing chun stuff. They said that in close distance CLF has the disadvantage since they can't use the sweeping motions.

But that doens't sound like it makes tooo much sense since i'm sure that CLF doesn't always rely on the Sao Chui (or those sweeping movements).

So yeah, any feedback on how to deal with a wing chun guy?

Thanks.

[cha kuen]

I've seen good CLF before and I would tell the CLF guy to fight the wc guy..in long range. Circle around him if needed and fight him long range. Don't grab or use trapping beucase you'll fall into wc's game plan. Fight in and out, never sticking and never close.

Many wc peopel don't konw how to fight long distance.

[TenTigers]

the mistake most people make is that they assume that long arm is long range. Gwa/cup choy and sow choy can be played very tight, and the gwa choy blasts through the bridge while simultaneously striking the head, setting it up for sow choy, or cup choy. Also gwa/cup choy is used in a nonstop barrage referred to as figure eight punches, and the ChoyLiFut practitioner can leterally run throiugh his opponent with this devastating attack.

[Sihing Tom]

Greetings,

Many wc peopel don't konw how to fight long distance.

Many, but not all. Combat can begin at any distance. But in order to strike effectively, you need to engage your opponent by closing the distance. Circling and running in and out does not allow that. Contrary to popular belief, WC people are not immobile. The footwork is dynamic, moving in any direction and cutting the distance to their opponent in a fluid manner.

Don't grab or use trapping beucase you'll fall into wc's game plan.

The WC person does not rely solely on trapping. It is not the be all to end all. A good WC person does not chase hands, but looks to engage the opponent and strike effectively. A "trap" will only occur when there is blockage in his line of attack. A pak or lop sau movement is a better choice than a "trap" which tends to tie up the hands. This is when relaxation and flowing is key.

Please keep in mind, that the saying "easier said than done" holds true. A WC person with little distance training will be picked apart by a long distance fighter. If you cannot close the gap, how can you "do the usual stuff"?

[TenTigers]

the reverse holds true as well, meaning you interrupt the CLF's gwa choy with biu-sao, jamming his attack. There is no superior style, only superior fighters. Realize this: all these systems were around at the same time. Hung-Ga, Choy Li Fut, Wing Chun, Bak Mei, Southern Mantis, BaGua, etc. People were fighting in life and death struggles, whether overthrowing the Ching or in battle anywhere else. Don't you think that if there was a superior style, everyone would learn that instead of staying with an inferior product? (Kinda like the Far Side cartoon, where the two cavemen are burning their hands holding meat over a fire, while another guy has his on a stick "Hey, look what HIM do")
The trouble arises when people who have a lack of understanding of their art, teach and spread their innadiquacies, thus giving their entire art a poor reputation. This occurs when people learn through seminars, and videos, and get "certified" to be a "branch school", simply because they paid some cash.
ok, I'm ranting again, let me, (umgh) climb..(grunt).. down from this soapbox, ahhhh, much better. Now where were we?

[cha kuen]

SIhiing tom,

Yes, I knew that.

TenTigers,

I do believe thta many of CLF's attacks can blast through literally many things, but they cannot blast through a close range w/ a good wc guy. I would recommend the CLF guy not to just blast through the wc guy but be more, in and out. long range.

Most wc cats can't do anything BUT chi sao. I said . most. not all.

[Cloud spirit]

The only way to deal with a W.C guy is to take lessons in W.C.

[cha kuen]

Cloud

SO you're saying if I want to learn how to deal with a tai chi guy then I would take tai chi lessons? To deal with a mantis guy, take mantis?

I don't believe so. It all comes down to range. You haev long range (CLF, white crane, northern shaolin), short range, grappling,throwing range and ground.

[tnwingtsun]

cha kuen

"Most wc cats can't do anything BUT chi sao. I said . most. not all."

Maybe most of the ones you have met.


Cloud spirit

"The only way to deal with a W.C guy is to take lessons in W.C."

This would be a good come back to the grapplers that say "the only way to beat a grappler is to learn how to grapple".

Both untrue,but a good come back.

[Serpent]

It's foolish to think that CLF is only a long range style. While it's initial learning is on long range and that's what everyone recognises, there's a lot more to it than that. A good CLF guy will have a devastating close-in game with elbows, knees and linear attacks.

[Fu-Pow]

I agree with Serpent.

CLF is always characterized as a long range sweeping style. True it has this component. This is our bread and butter and what separates us from the other Southern Styles (although Hung Gar has this too to a lesser extent.)

But we also have many of the inside techniques that other Southern Styles have. For example, Poon (inward/downward block and trap), Yeung Kiu (mirror bridge), Chaam (sink), Dam (pick up), Sun (upward block), Jaap (close the door), Pak (slap), Biu Ji (thrust strike), La (grab), Pow Jaang (upward elbow), Bow Jaang (wrap the elbow), Deng Jaang (nail elbow), John Jaang (behind elbow) plus knee strikes and shin kicks.

CLF is like southern style verson 2.0.

[wahh]

hi thanks for the responses everyone.

originalyl when i posed the question I wanted to know how a CLF person would handle fighting a close distance fighter. From what i understand, once a decent WC person makes contact with the other fighter, the WC guy has the advantage because of their sensitivity training. Would a CLF guy try to power through the WC guys defense or is there some sort o fstrategy with the footwork or soemthing??

Does CLF have any close distance fighting stances? i remember in WC generally (atleast in the yip man linege) the stance stays the same maybe movign forwards backwards or sidesways a littlle, but still the same stance and the hands do most of the work.

Conversely, how would a WC guy handle elbow strikes? From what i have seen most WC guys practice defending punches using the tan, bong, fook, pak etc. Maybe one of the WC people here can answer this.

thankjs

[joedoe]

Originally posted by Serpent
It's foolish to think that CLF is only a long range style. While it's initial learning is on long range and that's what everyone recognises, there's a lot more to it than that. A good CLF guy will have a devastating close-in game with elbows, knees and linear attacks.

I kinda chuckle when I remember what Dez said after you demo'd some CLF for him that night:

"How the **** is Wing Chun supposed to fight against that?"

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by wahh
hi thanks for the responses everyone.

Would a CLF guy try to power through the WC guys defense or is there some sort of strategy with the footwork or soemthing??

thankjs

Great question. Well, I've sparred with my classmate who used to do SPM (which I believe has some relation to Wing Chun.) If I get into a close quarter gung sao match with him he can out maneuver me inside (FYI, I'm a big guy.) However, if I'm playing the outside game then I've got him really good before with the unexpected sweep or sao chui from nowhere.

But to answer your question yes.

The strategy would be to overpower and destroy your opponents bridge. Then keep following through with a volley of strikes. They wouldn't all be like Sao Chui though, you might see something like Gwa Chui (right, smash down the bridge), Cheong Ahn Chui (left, linear shot to the throat or eye), Sao Chui (right, sweep strike to the neck), Gwa Chui (right, smash up), Faan Jong (left, upper cut.)

This would be a "beginners type" combination.

More advanced practitioners would probably have a more refined approach and "play" inside more.

[Rapid Fire]

CLF has many short hand and long hand techniques, that is why it makes it a complete style /system. It has both the soft/hard, long/short techniques to fight and defeat any opponent. The only thing limiting this style is the actual practitioner and whether or not they devote the necessary time and effort to master the style and its techniques. Each style is only as good as the person behind it.

There are many techniques such as sei tarn seen, lok gwai charp, seurng ma lau jeung, chin chi sau, chin chi pek, jow ma techniques, sei lai qwai, tau lau techniques,your basic gwa charp and countless others which can successfully be used to destroy your wc opponent in a fight which should only last seconds.

How much sensitivity can there be in a few seconds???? and why let someone come close enough to touch your hands???? .......When it is time to fight and believe me you will know , you hit first ask questions later. There is nothing a good charp choi or two or three or more to the throat wont fix.

My teacher always said: Never attack your opponent with just 1 or 2 punches/kicks. Your attack should always consisit of no less than 7 or 8 deadly punches/kicks/elbows etc, aimed to destroy them.....