Shaolin-Do answers challenge.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Mojo
Evad
based on this famous photo of the originator of your style, who is suposed to be a shaolin monk.
http://www.shaolin-do.com/masters/SKong.jpg

He is wearing a western style suit and tie.

So I'm asking where would a shaolin monk purchase a suit and tie ? It doesn't seem likely as I wouldn't think the monks would have the resources to buy a suit.

Grandmaster Su Kong had a life after the destruction of the temple. He was forced out but continued to travel in China and pass on the martial arts he learned and developed at Fukien. Wouldn't it be understandable that he would wear civilian clothes at this time? If you want a pic of him without a suit on go to the Central Shaolin website I posted above.

[Richie]

Aaaah, Shaolin Do. It is a very interesting thing, dont you think?

For about four years I looked at websites and debates about them. I have my views and opinions, but they dont really matter.

What matters is this:

Their Shaolin history goes against what are general facts about Shaolin.

Their lineage is highly questionable.

The hairy guy learned every form in Shaolin.

There is only a painted picture of the hairy guy's student, yet he lived to 1976.

They wear Japanese clothes. (Shaolin robes and Japanese gis are not the same. They are similar, but different. It is a common style of East Asia.)

The mix of Japanese and Chinese terms.

It's similarity to Kempo.

The fact that the current GM claims to know over 900 forms.

The way they do their forms are very or completely different from everybody else who do the same style. (It is funny when guy who doesnt even do that style says "thats not right". It is like a guy doing high jump spin kicks butterfly twists and hook punches and says "It's Wing Chun.")

The current GM wrote a book about the style and named it "Karate something or other"

It seems that a lot of their forms were book learned or not completely learned.

A lot of the techniques seem made up.

No shoes. (More common to Japanese or Korean styles, but not only J and K)

The Hairy guy is strange looking and did a great thing (learn all of Shaolin), but there isnt any mention of him, except from Shaolin Do. (If him looked the way he did, and did such great things everyone would know about him. Kinda like the other famous Shaolin monks and nuns, and fighters.)

There is a picture of the hairy guy. ( In the hairy guys time, monks didnt like to get their pictures taken. Yet he gets all dressed up (Suit and tie) combs his hair and takes a picture.

It seems like a cult. (Funny thing is Shaolin was like a cult too. )

I just feel if there are so many strange things to this style why learn it?

[themeecer]

Yawn. We have answered most of these questions over and over.

I just feel if there are so many strange things to this style why learn it?

Then don't learn it. We don't really need you. At the same time don't criticize people that do.

[Richie]

Number one, they are statements. Number two, I wasn't criticizing. I wrote that my views and opinions don't matter. I stated things I noticed about it.

Look, I wouldnt join Shaolin Do. First off, the name would be a clue. If I did decide to take a class, I would know from the door it wasnt kung fu, because of the uniforms and technique.

If you want me to criticize, I will. I think most of you poor saps invested so much time and money in it you might as well stay. I just wanted to know why, but whatever. Go down with your sinking ship.

[Evad]

You ppl should get to work on the grassy knoll theory and figure out the Kennedy assasination or something, sheesh, worried about what clothes we wear, what mix of languages we use, what we do don't do blah blah blah......

Here's another observation, why aren't there any paintings of Su Kong? Since obviously paintings are the prefered manner of showing the picture our Grandmaster why are there no painted portraits of him? Or how about, since these monks are so into shaved heads, what the heck do you do with something like him?

The thing with the paintings, one of the other teachers and colleague of Grandmaster Ie was a professional artist. He did paintings of several different things, and did bunches of portraits of Grandmaster Ie, Sin and Hsiang, their family and landscapes etc. There are pics of Grandmaster Ie in family portraits, etc, and would you believe in those he's wearing a suit. But these are rare and family heirlooms, and for whatever reason Sin and Hsiang have chosen to keep their personal valuables to themselves, the paintings are more elegant to them so that's what they show.

To my knowledge I don't think every CMA master had to be videoed doing anything in order to prove their existence or prowess or anything else. Master Sin and Hsiang are very picky and protective of their family and their knowledge, they get real hateful if you show up with a video camera to film something without clearing with them first, and even then they make sure for themselves that it's a your eyes only thing. You ppl will say that's because they don't want anyone to know how bad they are ripping ppl off etc, but too it's a common thing for old CMA masters to be protective of their family's style saving only best techniques for the sons and daughters.

As to why Su had a suit on, who knows, but it was the 1800's afterall, how many formal 1800's era photographs are there of people at a Barbaque or playing tennis? None, Grandmaster Su if he is real, would have been an oddity and an attraction to foreigners, could it be possible that maybe someone wanted to document his condition and arranged a photo session. Then the photographer could simply have provided the suit for the photo, kinda like high school pictures where they provide a fake tux 'bib' so you can get your 'James Bond' on for the camera. Daredevil said it best concerning the suit and tie thing....nuff said

The Gi dilema, let's see, first off I'm not saying that SD is related to Buddhism, that's reaching for a straw. Second the point is that the similiarities are there, I'm trying to say that our Gi's are shaolin buddhist monk robes, just saying that our gi is typical attire of asian culture. As for patches, kanji, etc. sure we do that, so what, it's a boyscout thing. Ppl customize their cars, ppl get tattoo's, piercings in places we won't mention, ppl get hair cuts, ppl change their hair color, big whoopity doo. We put patches on our Gi, and we put cool looking kanji on our belts, so what.

[Laughing Cow]

I don't know what the big fuss is about Shaolin-Do wearing Dogi or keiko-gi.
BJJ and many other Non-JMA use them as well. Great wear for training.

In all the kwoons I have been so far the standard training wear was:
Tracksuit pants, T-shirts and sports shoes.

Not a Chinese suit/outfit anywhere in sight, does that mean I don't do TJQ and should be jogging instead.

Pre-1890 there was not even a keiko-gi or do-gi, guys simply wore everyday clothing for training.

Guys, give it a rest already.

I don't know about Shaolin-Do and over here it is highly unlikely that I will stumble across one of their schools.

To be honest I am sick and tired of hearing the same arguments over and over again in childish attacks on SD.

Let them do their own thing and you keep going on with your own training.

Cheers.

[Fred Sanford]

Judo is the real street lethal

[Brad]

Good lord, I give up.

Haha, no sir I don't. I don't believe in the concept of "hate language," especially for a condition that is a choice. Even if I used a racial slur, which I don't use, it is not hate language ...

It's still language used refering to a group of people, used in a negative way... but thanks for showing what a hypocrite you are.

themeecer:"boo hoo, stop calling me & my friends names! By the way you're all fa ggots and my style's superior "

You can try to find as many "moral loopholes" as you like, your complete lack of integrety and honesty kills any hope of you effectively defending your position. You don't have to say "I hate you" to be using hate language, and you don't have to come right out and say "you're an ...." to be insulting/disrespecting someone. Your rationalizing your negative language just make you look like a big phoney.

Props to Judge Pen as he's been a class act all the way through, despite the fact that so many are trashing his org.

[Skummer]

Check this link...

http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates...-78-811.jsp#12

Scroll down to pic of the the guy named Li Baoshu. Is that a different pic of Su Kong or a completely different guy?

[themeecer]

Originally posted by Brad
Good lord, I give up.
You don't have to say "I hate you" to be using hate language, and you don't have to come right out and say "you're an ...." to be insulting/disrespecting someone.

The concept of hate language in an invention of the lewd left and for your information not everyone buys into it.

themeecer:"boo hoo, stop calling me & my friends names! By the way you're all fa ggots and my style's superior "

Excuse me, don't be quoting me as saying something I didn't. When you use quotation marks and my name you are saying I said exactly that and I did not. I said fa ggoty hopping, not you are all fa ggots. In case you didn't know, words change meaning over time. Heaven help the person that says ni ggardly, smoking a f ag, or anything else like that around you. And show me where I said my style is superior.

[African Tiger]

Sure Evad, I can unbutton my long tuxedo jacket, wrap a black belt around it and say it looks like a gi. But like your posts, I would really be stretching that comparison.

Themeecer - please get over yourself. You are acting no better than the BJJ chauvinists that litter this board. You live and breathe SD? Congrats. I live in California and I breathe bad air and regulated amounts of cannabis sativa. And with my 140+ IQ, I can handle it.

And I can also handle: 1) A little criticism of what I'm studying - plenty of people have dissed Sifu Carl Totten on this board, and yet I continue, 2) I can handle a little good-natured ribbing. That weed and brain cells remark was a joke, son, I say say a little bit of humor at your expense.

It seems what you should have been learning from SD is how not to be so thin-skinned. I heard that if you bathe in Dit Da Jow and throw yourself down a flight of stairs, it will help!

If you live and breathe what you study, why do you care what traditional CMA's think about you? And let's face it, from what I saw when I visited the "Shao-lin" Center, it wasn't traditional. And I wish I did remember the ass-monkey's name in charge. Then again it's inconsequential, because if I wanted to study Karate, I'd go back to TKD.

[MasterKiller]

if I wanted to study Karate, I'd go back to TKD.

[themeecer]

Originally posted by African Tiger
Themeecer - please get over yourself. You are acting no better than the BJJ chauvinists that litter this board.

And I can also handle: 1) A little criticism of what I'm studying - plenty of people have dissed Sifu Carl Totten on this board, and yet I continue, 2) I can handle a little good-natured ribbing. That weed and brain cells remark was a joke, son, I say say a little bit of humor at your expense.

What has been said on here about SD is not good natured ribbing, and you know it. Have I ever said anything about your Sifu? No, I have not and will not. In fact I would love to see information on your school, especially videos. I like observing the similarities. And I have seen many. Unfortunatly you have yet to see my forms done correctly. One reason for that, I fear, with so many forms we are learning in our curriculum not many people take the time to learn the forms correctly. The way it is set up for us is that we learn all of the material for advancement and for preservation of our art. But, we may choose to master only one or two "styles" of our art. For example, my teacher, Master Bob Green is a master of the monkey system. The people in the videos you have seen have chosen not to master anything as of yet.

With everyone's so called "good natured ribbing," I was relunctant to help answer a question about chi in the internal forums. By the attitudes I have seen here, anything I would have to say there would be disregarded because of my chosen art.

Originally posted by MasterKiller

JP, Evad, and even Shaolin-Do don't resort to crude language to get their point across, and they are fighting the same fight. Follow their example, and we can get back to arguing about clothing styles.

Give it a rest. This PC junk is getting old. Even if I was using the term in the context of meaning h omosexual it still wouldn't matter. I knew h omosexuals in college that used that term for themselves.

[Shaolin-Do]

Spandex.
Lots of it.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by African Tiger
It seems what you should have been learning from SD is how not to be so thin-skinned. I heard that if you bathe in Dit Da Jow and throw yourself down a flight of stairs, it will help!

Beautiful. If only!