Qigong and Yoga

[Oso]

Originally posted by emre
Pranayama and meditation can be dangerous if you do it incorrectly. Ever heard of something called the "Kundalini pyschosis"?

there's a fiction called "Kundalini Equation" by Steven Barnes. Barnes is a martial artist living in...crap, maybe Vancouver WA...

basically the main character develops Kundalini psychosis but becomes a bad ass fighter because of it.

it's a good read.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

and cheap

[Mr Punch]

Everybody's overlooked the basic differences: most yoga is based on seven chakra which are in a direct line from the crown to the perineum and does not feature any reference or obvious belief in meridians; most chikung works on five main energy points which although are on a similar line, according to the Chinese medicine classics are slightly off line, and centred on an extensive network of interconnecting meridians.

Consequently most yogic breathing is based on settling on one point or raising and sinking the breath along one line, whereas chikung follows an 'orbit'.

That's just the way I understand it, I may have some bits wrong. Now please go back to your scheduled bickering over whether you can go mad through these practises, though frankly, I think some of you are living proof!

Personally, I think breathing in a silly position can damage your muscles and therefore your organs, and therefore, if you are a little gullible/psychologically susceptible/unbalanced in the first place I see no reason why it shouldn't tip the balance even further... but no more than say, leaving a hat on the bed, or your Aunt Mabel turning out to be a man. But now I'm reverse breathing (blowing it out me ass)! That's probably cos I do full contact which I know can **** your head up!

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
People will believe what they want. Im not here to change anyones mind but he asked for opinions. You can find books written by dozens of different Yogis saying the same. Thats all i can go by. Im not gonna try to find out for myself for obvious reasons. Now if you want, you can argue with them about what they've practiced all their lives. Other Yogi think that its not possible. No one agrees 100% on most things. But im not the type to dismiss it just because i personally dont see how it can happen. If someone wants to be a guinea pig in the name of science then be my guest.

Personally, I think they all say that kind of stuff because it makes there meditation seem more powerful and mystical.

Like...

"ooooh....if you do that incorrectly it can make you go crazy...look how powerful it must be."

There are lots of things you do that can cause a kind of temporary psychosis. For example, sensory deprivation can cause you to basically go on an LSD-like trip.

Does that imply anything mystical?

Not really. It's been studied scientifically and theres a simple explanation not requiring the supernatural.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Heres the way i see it. These are the people who brought Yoga to the West and maybe they have something worth listening to or maybe. I wouldn't call them all complete liars though. The problem i think is even if there are scientific studies people still dont exactly know how it all works. You can say qiqong makes you healthier but no one agrees on how. I see it this way. If external energy (ex:radiation) can cause mutations (ex:cancer) in your bodies cells, then why can't you be affected internally? Of course you hafta assume that prana or chi exists in the first place if you practice qiqong. Thats just my "opinion" on it but im always looking for criticism. I'd rather know the truth than hold on to ideas that have no basis in reality.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Its funny you bring up sensory deprivation because thats exactly what some forms of Indian meditation seek out to do.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by SevenStar
what is the difference in internal development between these two?

Hi. This is difficult to generalize on; firstly, because these terms encompass a diversity of practices, and secondly because there is considerable overlap between them. For instance, there are Buddhist qigongs which are almost indistinguishable from what might be called yoga; whereas, a more Taoist method might be somewhat different.

The Buddhist/yogic methods are relatively more forceful and isolated, compared to more natural and generalized Taoist methods. We could say that the Taoist methods are particularly good at building energy, as well as the awareness, control, and distribution thereof; while the more yogic methods are particularly good at binding or focusing existing energy in a certain way. For this reason, the latter can be thought of as more dangerous.

As far as "ending up in the same place," I think this is misleading. Do plyometrics and core strength exercises end you up in the same place? Well... they both make you stronger, but strength turns out to be a fairly nuanced thing when you start exploring it. There's no reason to imagine that psychological development is any different.

A distinction of interest to martial artists would be that there is a subset of qigong/neigong which is specifically oriented towards martially useful goals (beyond simply making you a more healthy person generally), but this isn't true of qigong generally. This is a somewhat distinct issue as it brings us into the vocabulary of the internal martial arts.

[FuXnDajenariht]

How different can someone really be psychologically when they reach a certain point?

Anyway...... This link elaborates on what i mean by them being closely tied together.

http://www.acupuncture.com/QiKung/History.htm

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
How different can someone really be psychologically when they reach a certain point?

At least as different as someone can be physically when they reach a certain point in physical conditioning, don't you think?

I'm sure the mind is nuanced enough to permit a wide spectrum of developmental possibilities.

This link elaborates on what i mean by them being closely tied together.

Sure. But pushups and jumping jacks are closely tied together too, but they still develop you in different ways.

[FuXnDajenariht]

Yes they are 2 different exercises but the end result is that they both make a person healthier. Of course there are hundreds of different ways to build strength but no matter how nuanced they are it can only have so many results. I think the nuances have more to do with what muscles they work out than what they seek out to do. People a few hundred years ago didn't have a label for what we know as plyometrics, isometrics, core strength training etc. They did whatever exercises they knew about about or were available to them to build strength, and its probably safe to say some are more effective than others. I dont think they sought out to limit themselves though.

I also dont see how someone can be that different psychologically. Its on another level than your physical body. Even though our minds and personalities are all unique we still have the same emotions and instincts on a basic level. Psychologically i think its a case of someone being either mentally healthy or not. It just depends on how you define either. I know the mind can be developed different but thats like someone being gifted in music and another being able to speak many languages. I dont think thats what they mean by development though.