How would you know you are in California? Have you ever actually lived in China? Trained at Shaolin? Also why would you have to be Chinese to understand?
Witness the Dynasty!!!
New Site! www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net
How would you know you are in California? Have you ever actually lived in China? Trained at Shaolin? Also why would you have to be Chinese to understand?
Witness the Dynasty!!!
New Site! www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net
ShaolinDynasty.
I don't quite get your bent. I am living in China now for quite some years. I have not trained at Shaolin although i have gone and "snooped around" asking many questions as is my wont.
I said you would "almost" have to be chinese to understand the illusory "face presentation" of chinese society vs whatever might be real. The chinese model of the universe is quite different form the western model.
That doesn't mean communication is impossible or evaluation or criticism is impossible as some people hold. After all we all operate on deeper human being principles. The key is to understand how those processes are being applied in culture. Some Americans take what they are told in China at face value, may not be so much incorrect as just too simple.
So if i look at any organization, i can tell you or investigate who has what authority, what power to do what, where the ofiices are, who is boss to whom, how is the transmission of information, the missions or functions,what power sruggles or conflicts exist etc., etc. .i.e. the structure. So i'm trying to find out the complexity of the Shaolin Organization for the "Shaolin Monastery". More involved in that is who is deciding what is official or government Shaolin Monastery Kung-Fu, who is controlling the development and transmission of that. It seems it has recently been re-invented to some extent with the resurfacing of some knowledge fromm som individuals, that's probably with some government assistance and control, The government's official tract on Shaolin is that they are not sure what Shaolin used to be.
So i am trying to find out what and who is the offical
"Shaolin monk kungfu" and what transpires at what locations. Is all practice under central control or distributed control. etc. etc. The more distributed, the less meaningful is any idea of an offical "Shaolin Monk Kungfu".
Shaolin Pai itself is a different story. Shaolin Pai is a unique style distributed throughout Henan. It is similar to "Govermnent Shaolin" and "Shaolin Monastery Monk-fu" but does not need to be exactly the same and has many variations.
...
How would i know i am in California? Well, we studied this question in Philosophy 101. How would i know i am dreaming? - because if i use awareness, i can identify certain characteristics of dreams and the experience of which i can compare to memories of the experience of not-dreaming. Within this context i can say if i am dreaming or not. However, i grant if there was some other level of experience i was unaware and had never experienced, (such as like the matrix) then i could not know i was under illusion.
You really didn't want to know that did you? :)
[This message was edited by stumblefist on 06-21-01 at 10:31 PM.]
I find your comment "Everything in China is fake, including the government, everyone lies,..." offensive. If you truly beleive this, why on earth do you choose to live there and post here? Plus I'm Chinese - are you calling me a liar? (Actually I do lie on occasion, despite my Buddhist vows - I admit I'm a bad Buddhist - but I certainly don't care to be called a liar, and I suspect most Chinese concur.) True, face is an alien concept to westerner, but it's not too hard to understand once once you get filial piety and no reason to call us all fakes and liars.
However, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, since the essence of your question is interesting.
The structure of Shaolin is a tangled web, like so many Chinese organizations, as I'm sure you're familiar. There are many factions, including the temple itself, Dengfeng govt., Zhengzhou govt., CITS, IWF, and private enterprise. Each vies for power, as political entities do, and each is 'official' in it's own right. The abbot made a bold political move by trying to expurgate the village recently, eliminating many of the private factions, but I suspect he was backed by Dengfeng govt., since that is where all those factions will have to relocate and that will boost their economy. So I don't mean to snow you, but I cannot really answer this question easily.
Furthermore, I have no idea how many schools and students there are now, nor how many monks, because these numbers frequently change. My guess is that there are several dozen schools, maybe 10 to 20,000 students, 100-200 wenseng and 50 wuseng, based on observation and interview in 1999.
Nor do I know how many shows there are - I should qualify that any faction might run a monk show, plus I even saw one the originated in Beijing and heard of one coming out of Shandong - completely out of Shaolin, so it's really hard to tell. Many of the private schools put out tours, as well as private promoters, with dubious connections to the temple, if any at all. But then again, there are tours that have several of the geneuine monks on board too. There is no standard or control. I estimate I have seen at least a half a dozen different tours in the USA, each supposedly 'official'. Some definately were, others definately were not. The Bejing tour, which was the most fake one I have witnessed personally, drew a sold-out standing ovation, the most positive response I have ever seen to such a tour. If you can't tell which is which, you don't really need to know.
Indeed, many of these schools are illegal, especially since only three are authorized to teach foreigners but they all do. I have heard that some of these private schools are selling certificates, and that wouldn't be in the least bit surprizing. But as you know from living there, China is not the Orwellian vision most Americans believe it to be. It is more like small fiefdoms and posse mentality, so many such laws are never enforced. Those laws are somewhat silly anyway.
So no chart, no organization, it's like a Chinese fire drill. But that doesn't mean it's all invalid. There is just a loud signal-to-noise ratio. I assume your after the 'real kungfu' on your next trip so the best thing to do is to find contacts through the teachers that you are currently studying with in China. They should be able to direct your towards a good teacher at Shaolin. There is plenty of good traditional kungfu at Shaolin that is not "official." In fact, some of that is the best stuff... I hope your foot heals up so you can study their more seriously.
Lastly, I admit I have little expertise in China, but I'm very curious to know what portion of my Wudang article you felt was naive?
Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com
Gene-
where can I find this article of yours?
chiman
"Watch the Eight
Diagram smash the
diaphragm"
Our eZine article archive is in reconstruction now, but you can still access the old archive thfough a bug in the system. Go to our home page, click magazines, then click view old magazine format. This will take you to our old site. Then click eZine from there and you can get inot our old eZine.
Hopefully, it'll all be reorgnized soon, but try that for now.
Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com
Gene: here is a simple link.
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/HomePage/eZine/eZine.htm
excuse me, i'm out shopping for a fine Chianti, it'll be a little time before i get back to this discussion.
Yeah, I shouda thought of that myself, doah!
Cheers!
Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com
Hello to all. In answer to the thread I train under Shi Xing Hao in Houston Tx. I am still a novice but love the training. I just recently discovered this message board forum (sorry Gene :p ) even thought it looks like it's been up for a while. I too would hope to share training experiences with the other students who study with the monks in the US.
Keep up the good work Gene. You guys are putting out some excellent stuff. See ya around the web.
Songshan (Adam)
Thanks for your support. When are you and Dieter going to get Michael on this forum?
:p
Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com
Once back in 1946. I was living in china and i met a guy who knew a guy who trained with a monk. So I met with him (the monk) and we started my training then and there. unfortunatly famlily business came up and I had to return to America.
to whomever it concerns,
California is a great state!!! :cool:
jay-jay
wow, dynasty shoalin!
Your awsome. :D
jay-jay
lei wulong: Can you give us a few more details on this? Was it as shaolin monk? What was his name ans what did you learn?
Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com
Gene,
I noticed that you said you studied with Shi Goulin in Flaushing and Yanming in Manhatten.
How are these schools operated? Can anyone attend classes or are they on a monthly yearly fee schedule?
The reason I ask is that I travel to NY. about 3 times a month to study Jazz with a prominant Artist, and often though about seeing if it would be acceptable to take some lessons from either of these gentlemen.
I would natuarally have to get permission from my Sifu, but he knows that I go to YMAA for Seminars (actually he encourages us to go there when we can and often goes with us)so I am sure that he would be pleased to let me have the experience.
I don't know if this would be disrespectful to ask to train like that (a lesson here and there when I'm in NY). I'm not interested in "collecting" belts or techniques but would love to be able to learn from someone who I consider one of the few masters.
Also what were the prices like?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Gar
I don't think they allow drop ins, but you should contact them and ask. I know Yanming will do a series of privates - they may be pricey. I have know idea about Guolin and privates. I'm sure if you contact their schools, they can send you a pamphlet.
Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com
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