Who here has actually trained with a Shaolin Monk?

[GeneChing]

ABandit: Can you share a little more about it? Where is that exactly and what are the monks like? Is it connected to Songshan? When were you there and waht was it like?

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[HuangKaiVun]

GeneChing, how has your Bak Siu Lum from Wing Lam changed as a result of your training with the Shaolin monks?

By the way, I've talked to you and Subitai several times on the phone. Thanks for the help in the past.

[joedoe]

OK, when I say trained, it was only for a day. It was at the Southern Shaolin temple in Quan Chou and a group of us were over there with the late Grandmaster Chee Kim Thong. Grandmaster had been invited to bring the art of Wu Chu Chuan back to China so he brought a few of us to assist in teaching the art back to the monks.

It is always hard to tell the age of Asians, so I can't really say how old the monks we trained with were, but they appeared mostly to still be in their mid-to-late teens, some in their early twenties.

We taught them mostly strengthening/conditioning exercises and a few forms. Generally, they picked up the lesson extremely quickly. Everyone who assisted in the teaching were sure that if we came back in a year's time they would all be better than us. Their strength, stamina, and technique were excellent and their humility and eagerness to learn were amazing.

When we taught them forms, what would take the average Australian student 4 lessons to learn they learned in about 30 minutes. To top it all off, when they did the forms they looked a lot nicer than when we did them, and they were far more athletic.

Then we had a period of demonstration where a few of us demo'd forms, and a few of them returned the favour. Their forms were in general more wushu-like, and certainly more fancy, while our forms tend to be less flashy and more powerful. However when they practiced the forms we taught them, they were generally true to the way we taught it and resisted the temptation to embellish.

Generally the experience was exciting and humbling at the same time. These guys were young and lived in conditions many of us could not deal with, and from what I could tell their diet was pretty basic. As martial artists I have the utmost respect for them. I don't know what the Songshan monks are like, but I was impressed with their Southern brothers. Whether they are really good, or I am easily impressed is yet to be seen ;).

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You have no chance to survive - make your time.

[GeneChing]

huangkaivun: Glad to know we've talked, but forgive me if I can't identify you (your profile wasn't to helpful.)

When I came back from Shaolin, with the blessings of Lam Sifu, I implemented the Shaolinsi training program for our warm ups & gruop exercise. That was 6 years ago, and now it has completely replaced Sifu Lam's curriculum. Only the Shaolin students who have been with him for more than a dozen years (just his senior instructors) know what Sifu Lam originally taught - the rest think it's the Shaolinsi program that I now teach.

I aslo brought back the goods for Shaolin and developed his mail order business with those imports. His company was built upon his videos and those Shaolin imports. Now it has grown to become more income producing than Lam Kwoon. so the effect on Lam Kwoon has been very dramatic. It changed everything there.

However, only the BSL forms are taught there. I have shared my Shaolinsi forms with a few, but am very hesitant to teach that stuff now, since I don't feel I have the depth of knowledge required to do so.

For me personally, the shaolinsi program had a dramatic effect on my BSL. It gave much more complexity to the forms and diversity to the applications. I began to focus more on stance training, streching, fighting apps and conditioning. Everything went a level deeper. Not that it did much good - I still suck. But at least I have a clearer perception on how greatly I suck.

Abandit: That is such a wonderful story. Do you have pics to document it? If it were developed, it might make an interesting article that could shed more light on that temple, your master and his style. Please contact me privately if you are interested.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[joedoe]

Gene,

I don't personally have any photos or documentation to back that up, but I can see if some of my fellow instructors have any. I'm not entirely sure it would make a great article though :)

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You have no chance to survive - make your time.

[HuangKaiVun]

I'm the guy that sent all 5 Level 1 BSL sets on one video, though I recorded them improperly because I didn't have a "Student Manual" at the time (still don't, but WILL).

As you know, a guy like me has to cop his own applications and thus has come up with his own sense of things.

My question to you, GeneChing, is if you could elaborate a specific BSL technique application (combat) or otherwise that changed due to your involvement with Shaolin Temple.

The reason I ask is because I think it would be interesting for those of us who do BSL to see what's the difference between the BSL and SongShan styles.

[This message was edited by HuangKaiVun on 05-19-01 at 06:41 AM.]

[phoenix-eye]

I training with genuine 34th generation shaolin monk Sifu Shi Yan Zhi this weekend. Its a 2 day shaolin gong fu seminar in Scotland.

Sifu Shi Yan Zhi is the official shaolin representative for the UK.

Check out www.shaolintempleuk.org

I will post a reply on Monday and let you know what its like. Gonna be well hard I reckon..!!

[GeneChing]

abandit: Well if you don't think it'll make a good article, I understand. It just sounds wild. Do you know what the connection was to Henan Shaolin?

lau-paul: I met Yansi in 1999, he helped me with my interview with the abbot. I doubt he remembers me but if you get the chance, tell him that I am still interested in doing that story with him that we discussed at Shaolin.

huangkaivun: I remember a video with all the forms on it but unfortunately I have no memory of it beyond that. Sorry.
But to answer your question, well, it's really hard with out being able to show you. Shaolinsi has a more twisting energy, almost like Chen Taiji silk reeling. It's really hard to emulate, but immensily powerful when you get it. It also seems to attack on more lines. For example, in BSL every cat stance conceals a leg attack. In SLS every stance conceals a leg attack, be it mabu, gongbu, or whatever. In SSSL, every move has an application of the 4 methods, ti, da, sui, na (kick, punch, throw, lock.) I've extrapolated that philosophy to BSL, and it seems to work with a little modification, at least so far.
I just spent the weekend with the Houston monks. My disciple brother Xingda showed monk Xinghao some of my BSL sifu's videos and got some interesting comments that I am still trying to digest. It's a trippy variation, something that makes a lot of sense to me now in theory, but I'm a long way until I can make it work in practice. It's hard to describe for me, but give me a few months (or years) to work on it and maybe I while be able to say something more intelligent about this. I'll try to get more when I see him again in Dallas at Taiji Legacy.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[HuangKaiVun]

I myself break up my "applications" into long distance fighting (closing the gap), short distance fighting, going to the ground, and being on the ground.

In truth, I don't really think much in terms of actual "applications" anymore. I've become more interested in learning about energy flow and power generation, as I've done some Bagua Single/Double Palm changes.

Actually, I've interpreted "Fairy Scatters Flowers" as the Bagua Single Palm Change and the "Spear Hand Single Kick To Head Fairy Scatters FLowers" combo as the Double Palm Change (both in the Moi Fah Set).

Do the Shaolin monks themselves also practice Bagua Single/Double Palm Changes in the context of their sets?

[joedoe]

Yeah, I guess the story probably sounds more interesting than it really was. Don't get me wrong, it was an experience that I will never forget, but I am unsure about whether anyone would want to read about it :). I'll ask my training brothers about what they think.

The other issue is that Grandmaster Chee Kim Thong recently passed away, and I am unsure about how my Sihings would feel about such an article.

I am unsure of the connection with Henan. It is supposed to be a genuine Shaolin Temple, and is supposed to be the rebuilt Southern Shaolin monastery in Quan Chou. I do not know if the monks we trained with have any association at all with the Henan monks.

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You have no chance to survive - make your time.

[Shaolindynasty]

Gene, has Sifu Wing Lam ever trained at Shaolin and if he did what did he think of it? Techniques, Ciriculum etc.

Witness the Dynasty!!!

[GeneChing]

HKV: That't an interesting take on "fairy". I'll have to play with that a little and see if it works for me.
Your distance catagorization is essentially the same as the ti, da, sui, na catagorization. My fencing training echoes your distance method, but in trad. kungfu, I have always heard TDSN, plus it rhymes a little, so I use that.
Each monk is different, so some do know some bagua/xingyi, but what is more popular is Chen taiji, probably becuase Chen village is so close to Shaolin. But I think you picked up on what I was trying to express earlier - SSSL has this heavy internal element that you don't see as prominently in BSL or the cont. wushu that the monks demo. It's really hard to explain, but when you get real close to the monks when the practice, you can definately feel it.

AB: Don't feel you have to pursue an article - if you're intuition tells you not to go there, that's good enough for me. I'm very content just to hear your retelling of it here.

SD: Lam Sifu never trained with the monks. He has observed a few lessons at Shaolin when we co-led tours, but I think he wasn't into doing all the conditioning (running, footwork, jumping, rolling, etc.) The only time I have seen him take a lesson was with Sun Jianyun. However, he has always accepted whatever material I have brought in from SSSL and allowed me to teach it at the school, particularly the conditioning and jibengong (and not to mention the imports for his company!) Through me, all of his BSL instructors now know it and implement it to some degree. Personally, I think the SSSL has increased our BSL attendence over the years significantly. BSL class dwarfs the Hung Gar and Taiji classes. It is also worthy of note that one of our kids class instructors was ejected for (among other things) teaching cont. wushu. I brought both Shi Yanming and Shi Goulin to give seminars at Lam Kwoon, but Sifu Lam did not engage them beyond polite courtesy (and he never comments on anyone elses stuff with the possible exception of David Carradine and Brian Grey.) So it would be pretty hypocritical of him not to accept SSSL now. When I asked him in the past, he always approved.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[The Willow Sword]

SHAOLIN MONKS? WHAT? WHERE? IN CHINA? COMMUNIST CHINA? THE SAME COMMUNIST CHINA WHO WIPED OUT THE SHAOLIN TEMPLES? THE SAME COMMUNIST CHINA THAT CAPITOLIZES ON TOURISM TO THE "SHAOLINTEMPLE"? WHAT MONKS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? THE WUSHU ARTISTS YOU MEAN THAT SHAVE THIER HEADS AND DRESS LIKE MONKS TO ENTERTAIN THE CROWD AND RICH AMERICANS? HMMMM.. I WONDER. WELL I GUESS ITS PROBABLY NOTHING REALLY. LETS SEE NOW BUDDHISM,,,COMMUNISM,,,,WORKING AT THE SAME TIME?
I GUESS I AM NOT DOUBTING THE MARTIAL ABILITIES OF ANYONE THERE,,BUT REAL SHAOLIN MONKS? HMMMM I MUST BE SOBERING UP I NEED ANOTHER DRINK.................HA THIS WILL BE FUN. :eek:

[Brad]

While I'm highly skeptical of the Shaolin monks, there are Buddhist Monks in China(outside of Shaolin). They have various Christian churches so why not Buddhist monks?

[Shaolindynasty]

We shouldn't be debating on if the monks are real or not. That is up to Shaolin it's self to decide. Just because we practice martial arts decended from the temple doesn't give us the right to judge them. You have to remember that Shaolin is a Buddhist temple (STILL) and as long as the monks are excepted by that temple they are true monks. That is all I am going to say about this "controversy".

Witness the Dynasty!!!