kungfumagazine.com & russbo.com

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Gene,
You guys doing a Thanksgiving thing again this year? I'm heading to Vegas Sunday for a few days.

russbo

Looks like doc is dong monksgiving again.. .second story down.

[MasterKiller]

Cool. I'm going to try to swing by Doc's school while I'm out there. I don't post on Russbo, but I lurk a lot. Do you know what their operating hours are?

[GeneChing]

I'm sure it's on their website.

[MasterKiller]

That page is down. That's why I asked.

[jun_erh]

I went there once. I saw them doing a tai chi class. I always wonder if the shaolin guys are dissapointed. I mean kung fu is so much bigger in China.

[GeneChing]

I've talked to some of the monks about this and I'm not sure that disappointment sums it up well. I think they all realize that they are missionaries in a way. The tough part is more of the culture shock. I know that one monk dreamed of building a live-in martial arts university where many styles would be available, something akin to the schools in Dengfeng, something with hundreds of live-in students. Of course, that just won't fly in America now. So that was disappointing for him, but mostly because he had the wrong notion of the state of American martial arts. It's a challenge, no doubt.

MK: you could ask on their forum...

[jun_erh]

that's exactly what I was thinking when I saw him teaching three people tai chi. I hope he suceeds and builds that live in school one day. I think there are plenty of people who would enjoy it a hell of alot more than whatever it is they are doing. there is a karate temple near me here in Boston. I think it's like 700 a month to live there or something. SHim gum do or something.

[GeneChing]

For a live-in MA school to work, MA has got to be perceived as a viable career. Who can afford to be in a live-in school here? It would have to be like some sort of college. And for such a college to be viable, that diploma would have to have value in the working world. The whole notion of a martial arts teacher would have to change here in the USA. Maybe someday, but as of now, no one needs any sort of diploma to open a school, so why bother?

[unixfudotnet]

Seems like an awesome idea though. I would love to train all day and nite, with someone there to help me and give me guidance

Right now it is I go to classes 3 times a week and work on that at home, which keeps me busy as my time is limited.

If only I could just drop everything and study cma all day long.. but I think I would miss computers (i am a software engineer/developer) and sex, heh.

[Yung Apprentice]

I've heard about the temple (school?) here in town when it first opened. Hadn't had a chance to visit. Even if I did I couldn't join. (still low on the funds) I had totally forgot about the tour that was done here at the MGM in '98.

I had recently had heard a lot of talk here in town about it though. Two of my co workers recently went and checked it out last week. Plus a guy that works near me trains there and was handing out lots of flyers. He also had the article on the Shaolin monk there, that was published a little while ago in the KungFu magazine. Pretty interesting.


I'm surprised there are a few ppl making there way out here. (Gene and Masterkiller) I've always thought Vegas had a small but strong martial arts community.


Plus it's nice to see that the "Monk of the West" is here in Vegas and not California.


BTW, I also learned that the Lo Man Kam Wing Chun school moved in with the Russbo Temple. Found that interesting.

[unixfudotnet]

When I lived in Reno, there was not much work there other than light industrial (NV is the top state in the USA for it), which is working in a plant on a line, or working for the one of many casinos. I liked Vegas, yet do not know if I could live there without a strong computer industry, especially related to software development.

There just did not seem much to Reno or Nevada other than towns ran by casinos. If you took them away, you would kill the economy of the towns, and they would probably dry up like the rest of the NV desert.

When I was in Vegas last, I did see monks in the Luxor casino, and thought that was interesting. I thought to myself, "whoa, monks... I suppose the times are changing and they are making money off americans too". Granted, they may use the money they make for more unselfish purposes, but it is nice to know that they seem to have tapped into a rich money source to use to further their whatever it is they further.

I apologize, my knowledge of shaolin monks and what exactly they are and what they do (other than Buddism or Taoism + kungfu [thanks Bohidarma]). Hopefully they do not lose sight or get jaded, but then again, I would imagine, that they are more disciplined that I will ever be

For those that know some real shaolin monks, what is their reasons for coming to the US and teaching us? Do they hope to spread Buddism and kungfu to the masses and stuff? Do hope to make money to build more temples?

I realize I am very ignorant of this, can someone help? I want to understand

[GeneChing]

Contrary to popular belief, the individual monks seldom make much money coming to America. A few have been successful, some of the NY monks, but it's been the result of a lot of work and they tend to put a lot of that money right back into their temples and schools. You can make money at the martial arts in general, but unless you go the franchise route, the villified mcdojo scheme we always dis around here, running a school is a constant struggle.

The monks that come out on tours are paid a small stipend. Most of the money made on the shows goes to the house and the promoters. With some of the shows, a portion may go back to the temple. As for the monks in China, well, you aren't paid to be a monk. They rely mostly on contributions from followers. Many monks in Asia rely on begging to get their daily meal. In China, this has been frowned upon since the Cultural Revolution, but there are still some who have undertaked a traditional kuxingseng (bitter walk monk) which is a pilgrimage from temple to temple, begging for food all the way. Shi Goulin, now one of the most successful of the Shaolin monks transplanted to the USA, undertook such a journey, which I reported in his cover story in Aug 2000 issue. In Asia, such sacred journeys are common. In India, you might see a top executive take a few years off to live as a saddhu, a renunciate, and walk the length of the Ganga river from holy site to holy site, living only on begging. The community supports that. Here in America, the notion of sacred poverty, or even renunciation of material goods, well, it's a hard sell in the land of Hummers and Porsche Cayennes. I remember a good friend of mine once said "I'd do the starving artist trip if I could afford it". The only thing that really keeps you from renouncing everything and becoming a monk is you. Well, you and and the sum of western materialist culture...

[unixfudotnet]

thanks for the information

The only thing that really keeps you from renouncing everything and becoming a monk is you. Well, you and and the sum of western materialist culture...

I could become a bum in a second, true. I would love to drop everything, that would be so liberating. Just may be easier to beg for things in China? In America that is only Christianity Anything else is just extra in the views of most [ignorant] Americans, and the homeless and people that need our help are ignored... Yet people will give money to some foreign country when there are people starving in their own country and town.

I hate America, though I am thankful I can live in a country where I can hate it sometimes and say what I wish

Yet, it would be hard now to drop everything with a gf and kids. heh.

[jun_erh]

another thing that makes vegas a good fit for shaolin is ther are a ton of asian people there. Asian people like to gamble like irish like to drink

[GeneChing]

I remember when I told a buddy that there was a McDonalds near Tiananmen - he started jumping up and down shouting "We've won! We've won!" I asked him how many Chinese restaurents there are in the US and he shut up.

There is the notion of sacred poverty and non-materialism in Christianity too. Take Saint Francis of Assisi. For that matter, Jesus was poor. But the whole church and state thing is sideways in America, probably the product of this strange experiment in democracy. With so much religious diversity, it makes it delicate and for all the wrong reasons. I love America personally, especially what our founding fathers set out to do. But it has it's problems, especially now.

Monks in China take the name "shi" because they leave their family, and leave their old name behind. A basic tenet of Buddhist monks is that they are not supposed to be homeowners - the case of Shaolin is particularly tricky since Shaolin has owned land since the Tang, by imperial decree no less. As pop buddhism rises, we tend to forget that the root of Buddhism was strictly a discipline for monks - it only openned to lay practitioners later.