ATTN: Peeps who've spent time in China

[wangsizhong]

the following comments refer to actual experience or that of close friends:

Shanghai--so modern/futuristic you'll expect to see flying cars at any moment (almost a direct quote from a friend)

Guangzhou--bone up on your cantonese. this is the new name for canton. gotta be access to tons of training...

Xian--home of the terra cotta warriors. super touristy.

Chengdu--good little city. access to mcdonalds/pizza hut/kfc/shopping/etc. close enough to my old hometown (dujiangyan) that you could go find my old teacher. bus takes about an hour (15 yuan) so you wouldnt go everyday. there's a wushu middle school somewhere nearby.

Kunming--i'm told its beautiful. i've been there twice but wasn't interested in touring about. known for its stone forest.

oops, i accidentally deleted a few cities. changchun is north east and cold. and yeah, industrially.

Zhenzhou--isn't this the obvious choice? super close to shaolin.

Qingdao--believe its a port city. used to be a german colony. home of the famous qingdao beer.

i have friends who have been to the other places, but it wouldn't have been recent enough to give an accurate representation (china changes completely about every five years).

wang si zhong

[scotty1]

Cheers Wang (may I call you Wang? )

Zhenzhou is the obvious choice for training, BUT, wouldn't it all be Shaolin style? Plus, with it being so close to Shaolin do you think it would be fair to say that the schools would be kind of geared towards tourists? At least in a city perhaps not so renowned for its Kungfu the school might be a bit more, erm, genuine?

In addition to that, a nice place to live is paramount, training comes second. I will live in a nice area and take the best training available locally rather than live in a hole because it's close to a good school. Primarily because I am going with my gf, and although she wants to train I don't think she'd want to sacrifice an opportunity to live in a beautiful Chinese town to do it!
So I do have to compromise on that. Which is fair enough.

Just a couple of things:
"there's a wushu middle school somewhere nearby. "
Are we talking, you know, wushu?

"bone up on your cantonese. this is the new name for canton"
the school offers free Mandarin lessons, would this be pretty useless in Guangzhou?

Thanks for your time, everyone.

[dezhen2001]

in S China (from what i know from my chinese friends), they speak both Mandarin and Cantonese. Mandarin is the national language after all... but many people still speak cantonese...

david

[dezhen2001]

forgot to say before: most of the schools around shaolin, dengfeng etc. are all PRC wushu and some northern shaolin, so not much chance of finding wing chun there...

for schools around dengfeng go to www.russbo.com for the write ups

c ya,
david

[GeneChing]

If you can figure out the trains, you can get anywhere. It's a good starting point, but I personally, I can't breathe there. Really bad air quality. But the eats in Bejing, man, you can eat like an emperor for next to nothing.

As for museums, of course, you must hit the sights like the forbidden city, great wall, etc. There used to be a weapons display in the forbidden city, but the last time I went, I couldn't find it. There also used to be a cool display at the sports museum, but that too was under reconstruction that last time i was there, so I couldn't tell you if it still stands.

As for travel precautions, I'd say they are pretty much the same as any foreign country. Know where your embassy is, protect your valuables, and be smart. I've never taught abroad, but I have heard a wide range of experiences, both great and lousy. One major precaution you must be sensitive of is guanxi - connections. Everything is done in china through connections. Good lessons, train tickets, you name it, it's all about who your connection is. If you go there with no guanxi, it'll make you pretty vulnerable, so find some other people who might have guanxi in Beijing and get some recommendations. Once you penentrate that, China really opens up to you. Bejingers are the rudest people in a crowd because the city is so dense, you have to get rude. But as individuals, they are really warm and sweet, once you meet them personally. bon voyage!

[wangsizhong]

"bone up on your cantonese. this is the new name for canton"
the school offers free Mandarin lessons, would this be pretty useless in Guangzhou?

while mandarin (putonghua--"the common language") is the national language, its like speaking english in quebec. even chengdu uses more than a fair share of sichuan hua (sichuanese) and i'm told shanghai is the same way. local dialects are used everywhere, but you can get around it with mandarin. depends how widespread the dialect is. like in hong kong you'll be using cantonese and since guangdong province (home of guangzhou) is the home of cantonese (guangdong hua) you're going to run up against a dual language system. at least the writing is the same. here in tibet, the local dialect is actually a different language (but i can still get around in mandarin). the point is, the locals like when you can speak the local language. it'll be a great help with bargaining.
as a guideline, if you speak english in lhasa, you get charged 200 yuan. if you speak mandarin, you get charged 30 yuan. if you speak tibetan, i'm sure you could get it even less.

other notes of caution: people spit EVERYWHERE. they'll spit on the floor in your classroom if you don't make a rule. they spit in the street (even "respectable" ladies). they spit on the bus (not out the window--on the floor). just be ready. at least they don't spit on people.
--there is no such thing as a line up/queue. you push to the front and wave your money. this goes for train/bus stations, restaurants, and sometimes stores. be sure you know what you want and push to the front. it isn't rude, just different.

as for beautiful cities, i'd probably say kunming is the most famous for its beauty. my friend hates chengdu but loves kunming. it gets a fair bit of sun and is in the south so its warm enough. even in the winter its still spring-like. don't know about training opportunities, but yunnan (the province) is home to a number of minority groups that are of interest. also, kunming, if memory serves, is close to the southern border of china making out of country trips relatively easy. (thailand is really close, as would be burma (now called myanmar), and i think vietnam. check a map.

-wang si zhong

[scotty1]

Thanks for all the long posts everyone.
Wnag, keep it up, the more info the better.
Gene, good info about connections, rather than just walking into a MA school I think I'll wait until I get a guanxi to get in somewhere.
Stumble fist, you've scared the crap out of me now. I don't know if you meant to do that, but thanks for loking up that info on English First. I haven't given them any money yet so I think a little more research is in order.

Any and all information is GREATLY APPRECIATED, keep it coming.

[wangsizhong]

i'm not going to argue the language issue. you now have enough info to go on in that regard.

its true that contracts are not always honored, but i've never had problems in that regard. i've never been anywhere that hasnt been more than accomodating. i finally got my passport back after two months of waiting for a residence permit, but that's just administration stuff and not any ill will on the part of my school.

don't be afraid. but don't be arrogant. the more respectful and humble you are, the better you will do. remember, you're the learner now. none of this "this isn't the way we do it at home" business or they'll be happy to help you get back home (or at least wish you were). guanxi is a big issue like gene said, but you can develop your own guanxi by being pleasant, helpful, and undemanding.

*that's not the same as letting people take advantage of you.*

be aware though,that there is no such thing as a free lunch. your students or their families will give you things and invite you places. sometimes it is to thank you for your teaching...other times it is so that you will be obligated to teach their whole family the king's english (or something of the sort).
people will meet you once and want to be your best friend--be selective. they can be very, umm, persuasive.
"can i have your phone number?" "can we be friends?" "why can't i come, too? i'm your friend too right?" "can you introduce me to some western women?"
you might hear these ACTUAL questions on your first or second time meeting someone. they're serious.

sorry, this has nothing to do with kung fu. just some typical cross-cultural stuff that i would hope your organization would train you in. pretty basic stuff really. if your org. isn't providing you with this information, shop around.

wang si zhong

[scotty1]

I just went and checked out that whole board that Stumblefist posted a link to above.

Man, its not very inspiring, in fact, from those posts about English First and most of the others being about how you can't live on 2000RMB a month and how China is generally quite an unpleasant place to live I don't even know if I want to go anymore

Although on the other hand I think if I want to go, I should go and find out for myself how difficult it is, then I can say that i've done it and at least found out for myself.

Dude, what a head fu(k.

[scotty1]

Thanks Stumblefist, for the contacts in China.

I'm going to be phoning English First for some more specific details of the scheme later.

Questions like: do I have to pay for the air ticket up front?
what is the medical insurance scheme?
how is the accomodation sorted out? how many people to a house? does it have running water/electric/a kitchen etc?
how do the wages get paid?

Can you think of any more?

Wages are 2000 RMB, is that enough? Bearing in mind that your accomodation is free.

The reason I give them money is for training in TEFL, as I have no experience or qualifications in this field. Its about £150, plus a training fee of £200 (I think) which you get back.

[wangsizhong]

alright stumblefist, you know best.
enjoy your trip scotty1

wang si zhong

[scotty1]

Hey now Wang, don't stop giving me advice because Stumblefist disagrees with you!!

This is the internet, I don't know who I can, or if I can, trust anyone, so I need lots of different views to compare.

C'mon man, help me out....

[chingei]

Originally posted by Stumblefist
", is that all those LARGE companies are usually swine.
Now learn to eat bitter and you can have a real good time.
i'll email you some personal peeps i know who are absolutely honest and reliable, with honest (err... in the chinese sense ) and reliable schools.
... lying cheating school administration is an oxymoron. If you are a wimp. they will walk all over you. If you got solid eyes, don't let a detail go by complain, complain, then chinese businessmen will sit up and bark.
Why? Because they need you 10,000 times more than you need them. You just don't know that.
And they know when you don't know it.
And they know when you do know it.
The law here is the law you assert. You push or you get pushed. If they can walk on you they will. If you complain they "save face" and nothing happened and they bark for you.
Sorry Wang but China's a place for smarts and that phoney respect will get you nowhere and your advice will string someone out to dry.
No!! You develop your own guanxi by trading favors and making the right friends. never make any assumptions and always assert yourself and forsee every loophole.
Make your own appendix to ANY contract, and if they don't like it ...dump them. Never sign their own (blank) contract.
- open your eyes.

man! sounds like battered child syndrome!

[chingei]

Kunming is mighty nice

Chengdu has great eats

Xi'an has friendly folks

for whatever my opinion may (or may not) be worth

if you're at a University, you will have lots of opportunities to get to know students. Some waiguoren become paranoid and never interact with their students because "you won't get something from me for free you *******s!! my time and the wonderful sound of my voice are like gold! gold I tell you!!!"

if you meet some students who are local to the area, and maybe sporty-types, they may be able to get you an introduction to some local teachers. and yes, you should be humble and deferential to any teachers you get the chance to study under.

don't over-plan. ride the changes

[scotty1]

Well, I just found out that EF schools are franchised and a lot depends on the local owners.

Apparently the general feel amongst teachers of EFL is that EF are a reasonable organisation, even though what they pay their teachers is a small fraction of what they charge their students.

Keep it coming everyone, thanks for the thoughts Chinghei!