Reference for Chen Style compulsory form?

[gnugear]

Greetings,

I was learning the Chen Style form at a Wushu School and need to brush up on some of the movements. Is there a book that would be a good pictoral reference?

[dfedorko@mindspring.com]

If I may I would like to suggest that you purchase a copy of Tai Chi magazine. I believe, the Chen compulsary form is in their on video. Best of luck to you.

Damian

[GLW]

There is a book out and available through places like Chinabooks It has a blue cover paperback, and is something like Four Competition Taijiquan routines.

It has step by step descriptions and pictures of the competition Yang, Chen, Wu, and Sun routines.

The Yang routine is pretty poor. There are movements in it that were never in Yang style.

The Wu routine is not too bad.

The Chen routine is not bad at all.

The Sun routine is a good routine as well. The order of movements is a bit different than the traditional set but most of the methods and flavor are retained.

[Brad]

You should get the Chen competition routine video from martialartsmart.com (guy in yellow uniform on cover). Tai Chi Magazine's company sells the book.

The Yang routine is pretty poor. There are movements in it that were never in Yang style.

lol, It would be the one routine I seem to be really good at :-P Hey do you know if there are any other (decent) competition routines out there for Yang style?

[GLW]

Actually, Yang Zhenduo created one that is more closely aligned with the traditional routine.

The problem with the Yang form is that the people who put it together really did NOT do Yang to a high level.

Those who did the other 3 (Chen, Sun, and Wu) actually did and understood the styles, flavor, and history of them. There are level of difficulty moves in the Yang routine that are not in logical keeping with Yang style in general.

In the Sun routine, for example, they added a jumping slap kick for level of difficulty. In the traditional routine, that kick would not have jumped...but byt the same token, having Xing I and roots in Bagua and such...that is a minor change that is not too illogical. (In any martial art, any kick can be executed as a standing or a jumping kick).

The video tapes for the competition sets are, I believe, available from this site as well....

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

Though I do agree on the point of jump kicks which i have only seen in the traditional chen and guang ping (yang pan hao side of yang family) i dont agree on the coreography of the 49 form. it still is in the same category of the other cut and pasted forms like 12, 24 and 40 yang short forms.

lets take a look-

49 - Move Yang Style Demo and Competition Form




yu4 bei4 Preparation Form
1 qi3 shi4 Beginning
2 lan2 que4 wei2 Grasp the Bird's tail
3 dan1 bian1 Single whip
4 yun2 shou3 Cloud Hands (3)
5 dan1 bian1 Single Whip
6 gao1 tan4 ma3 High Pat Horse
7 you4 fen1 jiao3 Right Separate Foot
8 zuo3 fen1 jiao3 Left Separate Foot
9 zhuan3 shen1 zuo3 deng1 jiao3 Turn Body, Left Heel Kick
10 zuo3 lou1 xi1 ao3 bu4 Left Brush Knee and Step
11 shou3 hui1 pi2 pa Hand Strums Lute
12 gao1 tan4 ma3 chuan1 zhang3 High Pat Horse with Palm Thrust
13 zhuan3 shen1 shi2 zi4 tui3 Turn Body and Cross Kick
14 zuo3 da3 hu3 Left Strike Tiger
15 you4 da3 hu3 Right Strike Tiger
16 hui2 shen1 you4 deng1 jiao3 Turn Body Right Heel Kick
17 shuang1 feng1 guan4 er3 Two Peaks Box Ears
18 zuo3 deng1 jiao3 Left Heel Kick
19 zhuan3 shen1 pie1 shen1 chui2 Turn Body and Flip Fist Past Body
20 jin4 bu4 zhi3 dang1 chui2 Step Forward and Punch Groin
21 ru2 feng1 si4 bi4 As though sealed and closed
22 shi2 zi4 shou3 Cross Hands
23 bao4 hu3 gui1 shan1 Embrace Tiger and Return to Mountain
24 xie2 dan1 bian1 Diagonal Single Whip
25 zhou3 di3 chui2 Fist Under Elbow
26 zuo3 jin1 ji1 du2 li4 Left Golden **** Stands on One Leg
27 you4 jin1 ji1 du2 li4 Right Golden **** Stands on One Leg
28 dao4 nian3 hou2 Repel Monkey
29 xie2 fei1 shi4 Diagonal Flying
30 ti2 shou3 shang4 shi4 Lift Hands and Step Up
31 bai2 he4 liang4 chi4 White Crane Lifts Wings
32 zuo3 lou1 xi1 ao3 bu4 Left Brush Knee and Step
33 hai3 di3 zhen1 Needle at Sea Bottom
34 shan4 tong1 bei4 Fan Through Back
35 zhuan3 shen1 bai2 she2 tu4 xin4 Turn Body White Snake Spits tongue
36 jin4 bu4 zai1 chui2 Step Up and Punch Down
37 ye3 ma3 fen1 zong1 Wild Horse Parts Mane
38 yu4 nu3 chuan1 suo1 Jade Lady Passes Through the Shuttle
39 lan2 que4 wei2 Grasp the Bird's Tail
40 dan1 bian1 Single Whip
41 xia4 shi4 Low form
42 shang4 bu4 qi1 xing1 Step Up Seven Stars
43 tui4 bu4 kua4 hu3 Step back and Ride Tiger
44 zhuan3 shen1 bai3 lian2 Turn Body and Swing Over Lotus
45 wan1 gong1 she4 hu3 Bend Bow and Shoot Tiger
46 jin4 bu4 ban1 lan2 chui2 Step forward Deflect Parry and Punch
47 ru2 feng1 si4 bi4 As though sealed and closed
48 shi2 zi4 shou4 Cross Hands
49 shou1 shi4 Closing
huan2 yuan2 Return to normal

1-11 is ok is very close to the yang style but keeps out the brush knees, but keeps the sequence fine

here is the chop suey= 11-15- nothing like original form as well as 25-26....36-37....37-38

the 39-49 is like original

this is what make cheng man chings orginal 37 posture form still the undisputed champion yang short form. even though the flavor is different the sequence is still the best. it also uses fair madien plays shuttles to 4 corners. i havent seen 49 performed nor care to, i am disgusted enough of all the cutting up and slashing of the traditional.

matt

[GLW]

Ma,

reread. I was saying - I thought - that I did NOT like the Competition Yang form. I find it messy and not well constructed after the first few moves.

The Sun and Chen routines are OK (Chen looks OK but since I do not do Chen, it may be missing something). The Sun maintains the flavor and intent of the original.

Wu - there are some differences but I have not looked to far into it to know if they are major enough to make it NOT Wu style.

But the Yang - yech.....bad taste in the mouth for me. I learned it once and QUICKLY forgot it - went back to traditional long form.

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

I was replying mostly to your first sentence about yang zhen dou's being more aligned with traditonal. I guess you can say that is true, but i simply diagreed into his arrangement.

I feel cheng man chings arrangement is better choregraphed.

i will try to go to the dallas tournament this year, looks like a good one, taiji legacy. havent been down south for that yet.

Taste of china wont have tournament this year.

I have to miss berkeley.

[Dronak]

Interesting. I purchased that book because I wanted to have a better idea of what the differences between the various styles of tai chi were like. I knew these were standardized routines that were built off the traditional ones and so they wouldn't be exactly like the originals. I didn't expect there to be such differences between them though; I thought they'd all be sort of representative. BTW, thanks for the intonation numbers Ma_Xu_Zha. I'll have to look up which number is which tone but at least I'll be able to make note of them in the book. I need those intonations to have any chance at pronouncing the words correctly and I kind of wish more books would include them.

Sort of shifting topics a bit, but I know there's a similar book of standardized wushu routines. I went to a web site that I know sells it to fing out that it's called _International Wushu Competition Routines_ and contains "Changquan, Nanquan, combined Taijiquan, Daoshu (broadsword play), Jianshu (straight sword play), Gunshu (staff play), and Qiangshu (spear play)". Any comments about this one? I was thinking of getting it, too, but the cost is a tad high for me at the moment so I'm holding off. Since you mentioned the differences in the tai chi book, I was wondering if anyone know if the same types of differences apply to the wushu one, too. Again, I know that being standardized routines they won't be quite the same as the original forms, but are they representative of the originals?

[GLW]

Ma,

are you referring to the Competition Yang routine as published by the China Sport's commission or the one that is not seen much outside of those who learn from Yang Zhenduo.

There are actually TWO routines listed as competition routines. The one I am referring to as bad is the one put together by the China Sport's Commission. It is, as you say, disjointed and just plain strange.

The other is one that I have NOT seen ALL of but was created by Yang Zhenduo a couple of years ago. He uses this routine in competition in Yongnian and such (or did before he came to the US). Yang was quite vocal to many about his distaste for the other routine and this is why he created his own.

Actually, many were not happy with that routine. The sport's commission took the approach that Yang style was so well known that they could put it together easily. They did NOT include people like Fu Zhongwen, Yang Zhenduo, etc... in the group to create the routine. When done, they passed it by those folks for review...but then ignored the comments and complaints and published it anyway.

I would be curious if the routine that Yang put together is also flawed (having seen only about half of it - I still prefer the long rotuine ) Is this the routine you are referring to?

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

49 is not a good compositions.

I did see a excellent form done in china by Master Zhu Liang Fang of hangzhou do a yang form without repition but having no postures excluded and in same format as long form but without to many repeated sections.

that form is better than 37 yang short form of cheng man ching

[RAF]

This is a pretty good shortened version of Yang Cheng Fu form taught by Ted Knecht through his teacher, Mei Ying Sheng

35 Posture Yang Style Taijiquan


Created by Mei Yingsheng


1) Open Tai Ji - Qi Shi
2) Grasp Sparrow's Tail - Lan Que Wei
3) Single Whip - Dan Bian
4) Advance Step and Lift Hands - Ti Shou Shang Shi
5) Embrace the Moon/White Crane Spreads Wings - Bai He Liang Chi
6) Brush Knee with Twist Step (left/right) - Lou Xi Ao Bu
7) Hands Play the PiPa Guitar - Shou Hui Pi Pa
8) Repulse Monkey (left/right) - Dao Nian Hou
9) High Pat on Horse with Threading Palm - Gao Tai Ma Dai Chuan Zhang
10) Turn Body and Cross Heel Kick - Zhuan Shen Shi Zi Tui
11) Step Forward with Downward Fist -Shang Bu Zai Chui
12) Needle at Bottom of the Sea - Hai Di Zhen
13) Fan Through Back - Shan Tong Bei
14) Turn Around and Body Punch - Zhuan Shen Bie Shen Chui
15) Slapping Toe Kick - You Pai Jiao
16) Strike Tiger Left - Zuo Da Hu
17) Strike Tiger Right - You Da Hu
18) Withdraw Body and Heel Kick - Hui Shen Deng Tui
19) Double Wind Blocks Ears - Shuang Feng Guan Er
20) Snake Creeps Down - Xia Shi
21) Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg (left/right) - Jin Ji Du Li
22) Cloud Hands - Yun Shou
23) Single Whip - Dan Bian
24) Jade Lady Weaves Shuttles (left/right) - Yu Nu Chuan Suo
25) Wild Horse Parts Mane (left/right) - Ye Ma Fen Zong
26) Separate Toe Kick (right/left) - Fen Jiao
27) Snake Creeps Down - Xia Shi
28) Advance to Seven Stars - Shang Bu Qi Xing
29) Step Back and Ride the Tiger - Tui Bu Kua Hu
30) Turn Body and Sweep Lotus - Zhuan Shen Bai Lian
31) Shoot Tiger with the Bow - Wan Gong She Hu
32) Step Forward, Deflect, Parry and Punch - Jin Bu Ban Shen Chui
33) Apparent Closing - Ru Feng Si Bi
34) Cross Hands - Shi Zi Shou
35) Close Tai Ji - He Tai Ji


Mei Ying Sheng


Mei Ying Sheng



Mei Ying Sheng began his studies of Yang style Taijiquan in the 1950s in Si Chuan Province and later studied in various other areas of China. His primary teacher was late Fu Zhong Wen. Mei Ying Sheng was selected as one of Grand master Fus highest ranking disciples. Mei Ying Sheng has also studied with numerous other famous Taijiquan masters such as late Master Gu Liu Xin who was famous for his Chen style Taijiquan, Masters Zhao Bin and Cui Yi Shi who were top disciples of Yang Cheng Fu, and Master Yang Zhao Xin . He has also studied with the second son of late Grand master Yang Cheng Fu, Master Yang Zhen Ji.

Mei Ying Sheng is a retired doctor of Western and Traditional Chinese medicine. He spent over 20 years in Tibet after liberation in 1949, acting as physician and surgeon to many Buddhist monks and lay people. He was given the title of Outstanding Taijiquan Instructor at the 1983 National Chinese Martial Arts Associations conference held in Beijing. In the Spring of 1993 he was elected as a member of the board of directors for the China Yongnian International Taijiquan Conference held in the county of Yongnian located in Hebei Province.

Mei Ying Sheng and his student, Ted Knecht, have been promoting Yang Style Taijiquan throughout the world by writing articles on various topics within Yang style. Much of the information within this web site is directly related to their recent work.



Mei Ying Sheng

[GLW]

Ma,

well, that is interesting. The parts I saw looked OK, but then again, the entire key in Taijiquan is not the individual postures but HOW you hang them together.

RAF,

from the listing, I can see how that routine would work. There are a couple of minor transition points that might be problematical, but on the whole, it looks like a workable short form. It seems to hist all of the high points and postures.

Now for the tough one - does it begin and end in the same place? (In creating a short form, that one has always been a problem...get flow but do the lines in such a way that they add up to zero).

[RAF]

GLW:

It starts and stops in the same place. Ted Knecht teaches the form and in my estimation, its one of the few that is truly representative of the Yang Cheng Fu

lineage.http://www.geocities.com/yongnian/anima.html

You can see Dr. Mei Ying Sheng peform.

Although I do not practice that particular lineage of Yang style, it is one that commands my total respect.

You can read more about him in:

Tai Chi Training In China: Masters, Teachers & Coaches
Howard Thomas.