Choy Lay Fut (Tat Mau Wong)

[CLFNole]

Breaking holds is a definition that Lily Lau uses for their form that shares the same name. When I asked my wife to translate it she kept saying something about going to war or into a battle. She can be a pain in the arse when trying to get something translated.

[Fu-Pow]

I pretty much did a direct translation from the characters and it came up as something like "break hold" or "break away."

[CLFNole]

Fu-Pow:

One thing I have learned is that for so reason or another translating of the characters is not always enough. Cantonese tend to use a lot of slang and as you probably already know there are a lot of multiple meanings for characters.

I just asked my wife about it becuase she wrote out a lot of the curriculum for sifu years ago. According to her the 2nd character "tsin" means war. It could be like ping kuen where the character for ping means both level and peaceful. Some translate the form as level fist and others peaceful fist.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

When in doubt gotta go straight to the source:

Tyut

http://www.chinalanguage.com/cgi-bin...tonese,english

[1] [v] take off; peel off; strip; undress; take off [2] [v] abandon; renounce; cast off [3] [v] leave; escape from; get out of [4] [v] omit; omission; miss out [5] [v] slip off [6] if; in case; perhaps


Jin

http://www.chinalanguage.com/cgi-bin...tonese,english

English
[1] war; warfare; fighting; battle [2] [v] contest; fight; contend [3] [v] shudder; shiver; tremble [4] a Chinese family name


So in actuality something like "escape the fight." Which make sense. I think I got "break holds" from some other translation. (On the curriculum I made for my Sifu I wrote "circle out.") Both translations kind of make sense though because sometimes you must "break holds" to "escape the fight." ;-).

FP

[Eddie]

CLFNole, about a year or so back i send you that video tape. Not sure if you ever received it. It has the names of the forms written on a paper and zoomed into it - it has the chinese text as well as the engligh explanaiton. As i said, it translates it as war escape.

[CLFNole]

Eddie:

Never got the tape you spoke of. Sorry would have liked to seen it though.

Fu-Pow:

I think when you look at the set itself it could be loosely translated to "escaping from a war/battle". I guess my wife was right when she kept saying something along the lines of "fighting in a war". The form was obviously designed for multiple attackers which would be seen in battle.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

Eddie:

Never got the tape you spoke of. Sorry would have liked to seen it though.

Fu-Pow:

I think when you look at the set itself it could be loosely translated to "escaping from a war/battle". I guess my wife was right when she kept saying something along the lines of "fighting in a war". The form was obviously designed for multiple attackers which would be seen in battle.

Peace.

I see the form as a means to escape from a circle of attackers. Especially the Che San Sau Chui combo and the quick changes in the direction of attack/defense. Jin can me war, fight or battle so there is some ambiguity. However, I think that if you were in battle and you escaped from multiple attackers you'd still be....well....in the midst of the battle. Anyways, the idea is to escape on that much I think we can agree.

FP

[Pedro]

When in doubt gotta go straight to the source:

Tyut
http://www.chinalanguage.com
[1] [v] take off; peel off; strip; undress; take off [2] [v] abandon; renounce; cast off [3] [v] leave; escape from; get out of [4] [v] omit; omission; miss out [5] [v] slip off [6] if; in case; perhaps

Jin
http://www.chinalanguage.com
[1] war; warfare; fighting; battle [2] [v] contest; fight; contend [3] [v] shudder; shiver; tremble [4] a Chinese family name

So in actuality something like "escape the fight." Which make sense. I think I got "break holds" from some other translation. (On the curriculum I made for my Sifu I wrote "circle out.") Both translations kind of make sense though because sometimes you must "break holds" to "escape the fight." ;-).

FP

Great discussion, thanks to all of you guys, I was actually researching the translation of Tuet Jin Kuen and it was very helpful!

Would the characters for Tuet Jin Kuen be 脫 戰 拳 (tyut3 zin3 kyun4)?

脫 (tyut3) -> https://cantonese.org/search.php?q=%E8%84%AB
戰 (zin3) -> https://cantonese.org/search.php?q=%E6%88%B0
拳 (kyun4) -> https://cantonese.org/search.php?q=%E6%8B%B3

[Pedro]

By the way, I train in the lineage of Tat-Mau Wong (for two years now). I live in Brazil and our sifu is Francisco De Paula, who is a direct disciple of Tat-Mau. In fact, his academy used to be a direct branch of Tat Wong, but now it's independent and called Hung Sing Kung Fu Academy.

I've already read about the main branches of CLF, and I see you commenting on the differences in the forms between one branch or another, but I couldn't identify which branch Tat-Mau Wong's lineage would fit into. Does anyone know?

In my research, I tried to put together our family tree and came up with this:



Any ideas, suggestions or corrections on this?

[hskwarrior]

CHAN YUEN WU S NOT THE GREEN GRASS BRO. YOU MIGHT WANT TO FIX THAT INACURRACY IN THE TREE.

"I've already read about the main branches of CLF, and I see you commenting on the differences in the forms between one branch or another, but I couldn't identify which branch Tat-Mau Wong's lineage would fit into. Does anyone know?
"

YOUR HUNG SING LINEAGE BELONGS TO CHAN KOON PAK, THE SON OF CHAN HEUNG. THE TRUE HUNG SING NAME YOUR SCHOOL SHOULD BE USING SHOULD NOT BE THE SAME A FUT SAN HUNG SING. TWO DIFFERENT HUNG SING'S. THE ENGLISH TRANSLATION FOR YOUR SCHOOL SHOULD BE "STRONG VICTORY" (HUNG SING) WHILE MY HUNG SING MEANS GREAT VICTORY. NOT THE SAME CHINESE CHARACTERS.

LOOKING AT YOUR TREE, YOUR LINEAGE SHOULD FOLLOW CHAN KOON PAK STRAIGHT LINE, AND OFF TO THE SIDE IS JEONG YIM. NO DIRECT LINEAGE.