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Thread: Shaolin - Where's It Going?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepalm
    I guess what I was wondering is more where the 'Shaolin' martial arts are going, be they those as practiced at the temple or the private schools in Deng Feng.

    Myself I am curious I guess as to how the Shaolin martial arts will look in years to come and what it will encompass.
    :
    Well try looking at what it was in the recent past: the four families of shaolin were at quite a peak before the CR and fortunately some examples of this level of skill exist on video.

    the Hong family style is one of the most technically advanced. it is superceded only by Abbot Gao's Xing Gong. in many respects they are similar for thier length of forms and relative degree of difficulty. Hong has more kicks but the Gao Xing Gong kicks are more difficult, but there are fewer of them. I am quite convinced that the longest shaolin form exists as the 13claw single route/narrow path. it is as long as the hong big red plus the hong big cannon plus the hong hawk step plus the hong 10 sylabel mahayana.

    Gao Jun died in 2003. he had seven students that i know about.
    Last edited by YuanZhideDiZhen; 07-03-2005 at 02:44 PM.

  2. #17
    As a Chinese from the Shaolin area, I believe that I know much more about Shaolin than many people.

    Fortunately, you finally realize something and start to think about it, SHAOLIN- where's it going?
    For the so called wushu that you see today at Shaolin Temple and the Wushu schools, students performing head flips and many other fancy looking movements, don’t you think the the normal gymnastics athletes can do it better than these Wushu students. When I see those modern “shaolin master” perform traditional shaolin forms in a modern wushu way, making all sorts of fancy movements and they get judged on their angles of the moves and the heights they get to. And the government plays a major role in these competitions.

    I cant feel but sorry for these students in these wushu school some as young as 5. They train for many hours a day and I think the training will not help them in later life. As wushu is just a sport along with so called san da, Also the latest news going around dengfeng and shaolin temple is that two young wuhsu students died at TaGou the largest school in dengfeng.

    I also feel sorry for those foreign gongfu enthusiast who coming to shaolin, they come with a great curiousity and respect, but most of them leave with disappointment after they get shocked, and confuse, and get hurted and etc. In the end they left with their passion as well.

    You must be very disappointed with shaolin after reading my information. Also many people say that there is nothing exist in shaolin nowadays, shaolin already lost its essence. But I must say, shaolin is still there, you will see it when the heavy fog is dispersed. Dear friends, don’t give up! You can still find out the essence of shaolin if you make a careful investigation.

    I personally predict, there will be big culture revolution in shaolin in the near future. Shaolin gongfu will be thoroughly overhauled and radically reformed to its original nature.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaoshishan

    You must be very disappointed with shaolin after reading my information. Also many people say that there is nothing exist in shaolin nowadays, shaolin already lost its essence. But I must say, shaolin is still there, you will see it when the heavy fog is dispersed. Dear friends, don’t give up! You can still find out the essence of shaolin if you make a careful investigation.

    I personally predict, there will be big culture revolution in shaolin in the near future. Shaolin gongfu will be thoroughly overhauled and radically reformed to its original nature.
    well, are you saying that they are going to move backwards towards tai tzu from Great Spirit or are you saying that they are going to become the living encyclopedia of all martial arts and then ****genize it? or rather, modernize it for all people? sounds like that cult we were talking about back in april.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by YuanZhideDiZhen
    well, are you saying that they are going to move backwards towards tai tzu from Great Spirit or are you saying that they are going to become the living encyclopedia of all martial arts and then ****genize it? or rather, modernize it for all people? sounds like that cult we were talking about back in april.

    as i know there is one master Shi Dejian 4th generation inheritor of shaolin Wu Gulun gongfu, he will establish an assoication called Ch'an Wu Yi with the support of the government. so i think soon shaolin will change in time and people will learn authentic shaolin culture.

    i think people will change their concept about shaolin by then. i think people are lost due to the fact that wushu as taken a great infulance to people, and the true teaching of shaolin are over looked. also at present their are very few people who really know about traditional shaolin gongfu.
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  5. #20
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    Hmmmm...

    Shaolin Culture. Now there's a new tack! "Bhuddism and ritual in everyday life and how it applies to martial study". -?-

  6. #21
    Chan Wu Yi are the main subject at shaolin temple, but now few people practice these or just only focus on one of these topics. The three threaures of shaolin are one and should not be separted, as they supliment each other.

    With my limited knowledge, i can explain a little about the relationship between Shaolin Chan Wu Yi. The practice of Chan Buddhism can eliminate anger coused by gongfu training and fighting; practicing meditation can help you control and focus your mind, which is the most important aspect of internal gongfu training; through training gongfu your mind will become more aware of the body and give you a deeper understanding of the relationship between the internal organs, and these are very important for studying medicine.
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  7. #22
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    interesting. kinda like bhuddist pre-med. well that certainly reduces my preconcieved notion of what the temple was all about: i thought it was like a western monastery where monks copy documents and try to relate their religion to modern problems to provide answers to lay people. and if they don't understand it verbally, to beat it into them (only joking) with the chan sudden enlightenment method.

    i'll just stick to Gao's Hinayana and Hong's secret word.
    Last edited by YuanZhideDiZhen; 07-12-2005 at 09:53 AM.

  8. #23

    Shaolin Xinyiba

    Shaolin Xinyiba


    Xin yi ba is highest level of secret skill of shaolin traditional gongfu. Many people might be curious about shaolin Xin Yi Ba, here we will try to provide as much accurate information as possible. The information written bellow has been translated from the copy of the original manual, and some are from Shi Xingxiao’s own training experience at shaolin temple. Althrough the theory of Xin Yi Ba is very difficult to translate, we have provided a brief outline on the theory of Xin Yi Ba.

    Xin Yi Ba is also known as Chu Jue Tou(锄镢头). It was developed by Shaolin monks through using Gongfu movements while farming. The exact time of the founding of Xin Yi Ba can not be traced due to the several disasters in the history of shaolin temple, and many manuscripts were lost. However, Xin Yi Ba already became very famous during the Song Dynasty.

    At present some Wushu practitioners in Dengfeng claim that they know Shaolin Xin Yi Ba. They may have been taught a few movements when master Wu sanlin was invited back to shaolin temple to teach for three years. Acctually the “Xin Yi ba” they claim to know can’t be called Xin Yi Ba gongfu.

    Xin Yi Ba consists only of a few main series of movements and some branch movements. When one can become proficient in mastering those movements, he can create infinite postures of their own. In fact, the study of Xin Yi Ba is to practice and fortify your Qi and your outer strength, the purpose is to manipulate your Qi to nourish your internal organs and enrich the muscles of the body. Then one can move the Qi out of the body as well, and the Qi can help your body avoid being injured in some situations. And helps Clam your mind, and prevent illness, make your body strong. The study of Xin Yi Ba consists of many aspects of different theories and practical training, such as: Understanding of the three sections (Ming San Jie)/the four sensations (Qi Si Shao)/guard the five elements (Bi Wu Xing)/Liu He and Three voids and so on.

    Six combinations (Liu He 六合)

    Most people distinguish between external and internal martial arts and think that they are separate. But in truth, to train only internal or external are too unilateral of Gong-fu practicing. The hardest combination to train is the combination of “Xin” and “yi”. “Xin” is known as the heart, “Yi” is known as intent/mind, Liu He means the combination of six sections of the body, of which 3 are external and 3 are internal. When the six sections of the body are combined including the (Xin Yi), one can develop limitless power from their body.

    From the training of shaolin traditional movements, one would have learnt how to incorporate the three sectons of the body, which is the three external combinations. Through constant practice, and learn how to set them into motion as a seamless whole. Then, it would be difficult for your opponent to win from the practical aspects. Through practising the physical aspects of training and maintaining a vegetarian diet, one will build and store more and more Qi within the body, and thus will be ready for inrernal training.

    The most important aspect of internal training is one's mind and intention. In other words, one's intention must be combined with the Qi and focused on each movement. As many people know that Qi-gong is the art of breathing, the majority of people who have read about Qi-gong will know that many theories are similar. However, the methods of practice may vary. Normally people's breathing is not fully completed, so the practice of deep breathing through the Dantian which is your lower abdomen can complete you breathing. In this way, your breathing can guide more oxygen to every organ and nerves, and activates the nerves to be more sensitive, which makes the immune system stronger and more resistant to viruses and illness. So the body can generate more potential energy. That's how some people who practice Qi-gong are able to be cured their own illness that conventional medicine cannot cure. In traditional Shaolin training, there are some advanced methods and forms for internal training such as Yi Jin Jing and Shi Sui Jing, these forms enable you to manipulate the Qi and produce more physical power in fighting movements. The movements are led by one's mind, only when you can purify your mind, combined with your intent, and your mind can control the Qi to flow through all the nerves smoothly, then you can bring out the power generated through Qi in your movements. To follow the theory we explained above, your Mind, Intention, Qi and Power must be well combined, which are three internal combinations of Liu He.

    Understanding of the three sections (Ming San Jie明三节)

    The body has three main sections of which the hands to shoulders (upper section) chest to waste (middle section) hips to feet (root section).

    Then we analyze the three major sections there are another three sections to each one of the main sections.

    Upper section: hands(Upper), elbows(middle) and shoulders(root).
    Middle section: chest(upper) heart(middle) and lower abdomen(root).
    Root section: feet(upper) knees(middle) and hips(root).

    The relationship between the three sections has its own unique functions. For instance when a movement is performed from one of the three sections,the other two sections must be in harmony to generate the power from the movement done, which means any movements must be supported by the power generated from the whole body. That’s how important it is for practitioners to understand the San Jie.

    Four internal sensations(Qi si shao-齐四稍)

    For the original gongfu theory, all parts of the body are connected to the central nerve system for instance, the hair is assumed as being the ending of the blood, the nails is the ending of the ligament, teeth is the ending of your bones and tongue is the ending of your muscles.

    When you are practicing, you should get the sensations like your hair is lifting your scalp; and your nails are like trying to penetrate the bones; and teeth are like biting through steel and your tongue is like trying to push your teeth out of place. Then the internal power can be most generated. When the Qi raises from the Dantian, the Qi produces a sound with each movement, the sound follows the movements and work together as a whole. Then all the parts of the body are set into motion, and the internal energy can be generated completely.

    So when you practice gong-fu, first you must understand the theory behind the method. Also you have to understand every part of your body within the movements and what it is used for. Only when you understand these, your practice will be effective and efficient. The theories we have explained above are only a part of the requirements of the practice of Xin Yi Ba. There are much more theories and practical application of Xin Yi Ba which can’t be put into words, but the practitioner must experience personally through training with the old training methods.
    For Xin yi ba practice, there are some certain postures and movements to practice with the requirements, through practice you can become more proficient in the fighting strategy. And the practice can improve your gong-fu to the unlimited state. If one can reach the peak of the practice of Xin Yi Ba, then any movements performed can be called Xin Yi Ba.


    information provide by wugulun gongfu association
    Contact details wugulun@hotmail.com and sldj@shaolindj.com
    www.shaolindj.com
    Last edited by shaoshishan; 07-20-2005 at 07:06 PM.
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  9. #24
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    i apologise for upsetting you...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaoshishan
    Shaolin Xinyiba


    When you are practicing, you should get the sensations like your hair is lifting your scalp; and your nails are like trying to penetrate the bones; and teeth are like biting through steel and your tongue is like trying to push your teeth out of place. Then the internal power can be most generated. When the Qi raises from the Dantian, the Qi produces a sound with each movement, the sound follows the movements and work together as a whole. Then all the parts of the body are set into motion, and the internal energy can be generated completely.

    So when you practice gong-fu, first you must understand the theory behind the method. Also you have to understand every part of your body within the movements and what it is used for. Only when you understand these, your practice will be effective and efficient.

    ...And the practice can improve your gong-fu to the unlimited state.
    from my experience this is the physical affect of advanced qi control combined with induced qi flow and directed forms practice. it often occurs before the 'Li-gong sudden enlightenment' but it is not the same as sitori: which is related but still different, and even more advanced with regaurds to the second statement of the second paragraph above.

  11. #26
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    Where is Shaolin Going??

    Interesting question in deed. I can only speak about Shaolin here in the US where I have my experiences in. I can't really talk about Shaolin in China because I have not been there. I think I see Shaolin growing here in the USA but leveling off real soon. For the most part only New York, Texas, Nevada, Alabama and California are the only 5 out of 50 states in the US that have a actual warrior monk/disciple running a school. New York and Texas being the most saturated areas of the Shaolin schools. It is a good thing that we have these schools because every monk has something to offer. It's a bad thing because too much of it can leave everyone tired of it. It's bad enough we read all the time about whats real/fake the wushu debate and the rest of the negative publicity shaolin gets at times. I believe there are some frauds out there but not all of it is fake.

    I never really thought about another "cultural revolution" happening in Shaolin but it is a possiblity looking at the history of shaolin. One can only hope that somewhere and somehow there is some kind of standardization to preserve a very serious and imoprtant part of Chinese culture.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaoshishan
    Shaolin Xinyiba


    Xin yi ba is highest level of secret skill of shaolin traditional gongfu. Many people might be curious about shaolin Xin Yi Ba, here we will try to provide as much accurate information as possible. The information written bellow has been translated from the copy of the original manual, and some are from Shi Xingxiao’s own training experience at shaolin temple. Althrough the theory of Xin Yi Ba is very difficult to translate, we have provided a brief outline on the theory of Xin Yi Ba.

    Xin Yi Ba is also known as Chu Jue Tou(锄镢头). It was developed by Shaolin monks through using Gongfu movements while farming. The exact time of the founding of Xin Yi Ba can not be traced due to the several disasters in the history of shaolin temple, and many manuscripts were lost. However, Xin Yi Ba already became very famous during the Song Dynasty.

    At present some Wushu practitioners in Dengfeng claim that they know Shaolin Xin Yi Ba. They may have been taught a few movements when master Wu sanlin was invited back to shaolin temple to teach for three years. Acctually the “Xin Yi ba” they claim to know can’t be called Xin Yi Ba gongfu.

    Xin Yi Ba consists only of a few main series of movements and some branch movements. When one can become proficient in mastering those movements, he can create infinite postures of their own. In fact, the study of Xin Yi Ba is to practice and fortify your Qi and your outer strength, the purpose is to manipulate your Qi to nourish your internal organs and enrich the muscles of the body. Then one can move the Qi out of the body as well, and the Qi can help your body avoid being injured in some situations. And helps Clam your mind, and prevent illness, make your body strong. The study of Xin Yi Ba consists of many aspects of different theories and practical training, such as: Understanding of the three sections (Ming San Jie)/the four sensations (Qi Si Shao)/guard the five elements (Bi Wu Xing)/Liu He and Three voids and so on.

    Six combinations (Liu He 六合)

    Most people distinguish between external and internal martial arts and think that they are separate. But in truth, to train only internal or external are too unilateral of Gong-fu practicing. The hardest combination to train is the combination of “Xin” and “yi”. “Xin” is known as the heart, “Yi” is known as intent/mind, Liu He means the combination of six sections of the body, of which 3 are external and 3 are internal. When the six sections of the body are combined including the (Xin Yi), one can develop limitless power from their body.

    From the training of shaolin traditional movements, one would have learnt how to incorporate the three sectons of the body, which is the three external combinations. Through constant practice, and learn how to set them into motion as a seamless whole. Then, it would be difficult for your opponent to win from the practical aspects. Through practising the physical aspects of training and maintaining a vegetarian diet, one will build and store more and more Qi within the body, and thus will be ready for inrernal training.

    The most important aspect of internal training is one's mind and intention. In other words, one's intention must be combined with the Qi and focused on each movement. As many people know that Qi-gong is the art of breathing, the majority of people who have read about Qi-gong will know that many theories are similar. However, the methods of practice may vary. Normally people's breathing is not fully completed, so the practice of deep breathing through the Dantian which is your lower abdomen can complete you breathing. In this way, your breathing can guide more oxygen to every organ and nerves, and activates the nerves to be more sensitive, which makes the immune system stronger and more resistant to viruses and illness. So the body can generate more potential energy. That's how some people who practice Qi-gong are able to be cured their own illness that conventional medicine cannot cure. In traditional Shaolin training, there are some advanced methods and forms for internal training such as Yi Jin Jing and Shi Sui Jing, these forms enable you to manipulate the Qi and produce more physical power in fighting movements. The movements are led by one's mind, only when you can purify your mind, combined with your intent, and your mind can control the Qi to flow through all the nerves smoothly, then you can bring out the power generated through Qi in your movements. To follow the theory we explained above, your Mind, Intention, Qi and Power must be well combined, which are three internal combinations of Liu He.

    Understanding of the three sections (Ming San Jie明三节)

    The body has three main sections of which the hands to shoulders (upper section) chest to waste (middle section) hips to feet (root section).

    Then we analyze the three major sections there are another three sections to each one of the main sections.

    Upper section: hands(Upper), elbows(middle) and shoulders(root).
    Middle section: chest(upper) heart(middle) and lower abdomen(root).
    Root section: feet(upper) knees(middle) and hips(root).

    The relationship between the three sections has its own unique functions. For instance when a movement is performed from one of the three sections,the other two sections must be in harmony to generate the power from the movement done, which means any movements must be supported by the power generated from the whole body. That’s how important it is for practitioners to understand the San Jie.

    Four internal sensations(Qi si shao-齐四稍)

    For the original gongfu theory, all parts of the body are connected to the central nerve system for instance, the hair is assumed as being the ending of the blood, the nails is the ending of the ligament, teeth is the ending of your bones and tongue is the ending of your muscles.

    When you are practicing, you should get the sensations like your hair is lifting your scalp; and your nails are like trying to penetrate the bones; and teeth are like biting through steel and your tongue is like trying to push your teeth out of place. Then the internal power can be most generated. When the Qi raises from the Dantian, the Qi produces a sound with each movement, the sound follows the movements and work together as a whole. Then all the parts of the body are set into motion, and the internal energy can be generated completely.

    So when you practice gong-fu, first you must understand the theory behind the method. Also you have to understand every part of your body within the movements and what it is used for. Only when you understand these, your practice will be effective and efficient. The theories we have explained above are only a part of the requirements of the practice of Xin Yi Ba. There are much more theories and practical application of Xin Yi Ba which can’t be put into words, but the practitioner must experience personally through training with the old training methods.
    For Xin yi ba practice, there are some certain postures and movements to practice with the requirements, through practice you can become more proficient in the fighting strategy. And the practice can improve your gong-fu to the unlimited state. If one can reach the peak of the practice of Xin Yi Ba, then any movements performed can be called Xin Yi Ba.


    information provide by wugulun gongfu association
    Contact details wugulun@hotmail.com and sldj@shaolindj.com
    www.shaolindj.com
    well said, a monk couldn't have put it better himself.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasquez
    well said, a monk couldn't have put it better himself.
    what do you mean by saying this???
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaoshishan
    what do you mean by saying this???
    great thanks you've even got the chinese words happening. happy training

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