Decent light sparring vid

[Hendrik]

Not only the reaction force can pushes one back.
It can be control to deliver in term of timing, trajectory path, depth, and duration.
And can be monitor in a physics lab.
It is not thinking. It is physics phenomenon.

What do you think the Chinese Jin play is about?
Why is it a chi sau in Wck?

It is a force vector because one can control the direction and amplitude of the force flow or injection. Plain hit and inject a force in as describe by hammer a nail in by Gm Ipman in his interview article are different things.


Similar to the silence of "using silence to handle action" which means physiological coherence state in biofeedback . It is real and measure able.




You still did not answer my question though do you really think the ground pushes you back?

Of course you do not you are an educated man.

So why did you say that then? Why say something that is not true? Why do you not just say things as they really are?

Do you see that is my point that this type of terminology misleads us and makes us think things are different than they really are.

We start thinking vectors really exist or that we are using power from the ground and things like that.

[YouKnowWho]

All power come from "ground and up", "back to front". This is why the direction of your feet are important. It indicates which direction that your body will "spring forward" to. After that initial "spring", you can use your momentum, but that initial spring by pushing your back foot onto the ground to borrow the counter-force from the ground is important.

[Hendrik]

Agree. Good point!

All power come from "ground and up", "back to front". This is why the direction of your feet are important. It indicates which direction that your body will "spring forward" to.

[KPM]

In case anyone cares:

http://moon.ouhsc.edu/dthompso/gait/...s/GRFBKGND.HTM

[Hendrik]

More then 160 years ago , 1850, red boat, the instruction yik kam get while studying snt


Yik Kam Wing Chun , Siu Nin Tau set Writing Part 1

Y1聚意會神平肩檔。
Focus the intention, union with the awareness ,while standing the equal shoulder stance

Note: we now know "Focus the intention, union with the awareness ," means coherence state in biofeedback and it is measurable.


Y2兩手前起分陰陽
Two Hands Front Raise Divide into Yin and Yang.



Y3左腿跘出有善惡。
The trip out of Left leg has positive and negative effects.
Y4右跟屈勁緊反藏
The bending power of the right heel tightly store in the reverse direction.

Note: take a look at Kieth's llink here and guess what is
"The bending power of the right heel tightly store in the reverse direction."mean.
And, isn't it reverse direction of the heel is into the ground... Isn't it left and right legs influencing each others?


Yes, there is a process to develop this in snt 160 years ago. They do know even though they don't study Newtonian physics. Grfv, wing chun ancestor called it 力從地起。 force raise from ground.






We today have technology to pin point and effectively develop what they consider the subtle or internal art which they cannot measure easily 160 years ago.

The discovery of Wck continuous....... History and DNA is important. We know what it is we can improve the process of development via high tech today.

The following is a first attemp, it is just a beginning , see page 15, 18, 23. It is not a believe but physical phenomenon.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/121501202

In case anyone cares:



http://moon.ouhsc.edu/dthompso/gait/...s/GRFBKGND.HTM

[Paddington]

In case anyone cares:

http://moon.ouhsc.edu/dthompso/gait/...s/GRFBKGND.HTM

Thanks for the link. It is an interesting read and set of references.

[tc101]

You still did not answer my question though do you really think the ground pushes you back? Of course you do not you are an educated man. So why did you say that then? Why say something that is not true? Why do you not just say things as they really are? Do you see that is my point that this type of terminology misleads us and makes us think things are different than they really are. We start thinking vectors really exist or that we are using power from the ground and things like that.

Sorry. You were very rude and insulting. I said I was done with you. I'm not about to try and give you a biomechanics lesson now. You wouldn't listen anyway.

I was rude and insulting because I say there is no such thing as ground reaction force and that the ground does not push back? If you took offense I apologize. I did not mean to be rude just direct.

[tc101]

In case anyone cares:

http://moon.ouhsc.edu/dthompso/gait/...s/GRFBKGND.HTM

Ok thanks I stand corrected there is uncheck a thing. So this ground force vector describes the direction and magnitude of force when your foot pushes off the ground?

Do you think this sort of thing is helpful to someone trying to spar or hit a ball or do other athletic activity?

[tc101]

All power come from "ground and up", "back to front". This is why the direction of your feet are important. It indicates which direction that your body will "spring forward" to. After that initial "spring", you can use your momentum, but that initial spring by pushing your back foot onto the ground to borrow the counter-force from the ground is important.

If you think of the body working like a spring with one end set on the ground then you will see that there is no counter force from the ground it is only the connection to the ground allows the spring to work as a spring. All the power of the spring comes from the spring itself and the force loaded on it but none comes from the ground.

If I run backwards is my power still going back to front?

[guy b.]

Ok thanks I stand corrected there is uncheck a thing. So this ground force vector describes the direction and magnitude of force when your foot pushes off the ground?

Do you think this sort of thing is helpful to someone trying to spar or hit a ball or do other athletic activity?

It is important in wing chun to understand the reasons for doing certain things so that one can correct errors as they occur, which is often. Wing chun is not easy.

Sometimes other people are worth listening to

[k gledhill]

Ok thanks I stand corrected there is uncheck a thing. So this ground force vector describes the direction and magnitude of force when your foot pushes off the ground?

Do you think this sort of thing is helpful to someone trying to spar or hit a ball or do other athletic activity?

To Ving Tsun " power punching " with this basic Newtonian law of physics is essential. This is why we keep our rear foot driving int the ground ,skimming the ground in short steps.
The quadriceps are the body's strongest muscle group. We use them to lift heavy objects. By using heels to / drive the rear legs into the ground , we can create a pulse of energy into the ground knowing its equal and opposite force will rebound. If we have no balance when we lift a heavy object the imbalance will make us fall. So we also focus on alignment of this pulse of energy. If I adopt elbow angles that align to strike in time with this " pulse " I gain a great amount of force without retracting my arms or relying on upper body rotation to generate force alone ( we can combine facing force later ).
The leg can utilize ALL the muscle groups as it reaches full extension, so along with the quadriceps, we gain hamstrings and calf muscles as they x behind the knee joint and help pull the leg straight. If we rely on rear heel up and don't use this connectivity, we are using the calf muscles ! A relatively weak muscle group. We also shift our weight to the lead leg and lean forwards to hit ( sound familiar ? ) doing this requires a different dynamic chain of events than Ving Tsun.
This is why we require slt sitting on heels and then mobility of chum kiu so we can also utilize force by rotating sharply to specific angles and creating a kinetic " Newtonian cradle " of ballistic forces.
This force generation is not felt by the student when issuing it because the chain of force comes from engaging muscles and channeling it through our tight aligned slt/ck postures. Proving this force is by " inch punch/palm " , WITHOUT leaning into or away from the target prior to or post strike. Iow if you train to " retract to issue force or rotate arms back to make force forwards with upper body rotating ..... As many humans will ; ) you get " the force " .
If you try to issue force like this vt is designed to issue force INTO your preparation.


So ground rebound is essentially THE main requirement for us to ko in short range striking. Stability along varying planes to ensure we protect our center of gravity aka CG. the " chi sao " to us is a drill of trying to move the CG to the edge of your stance angles so balance is tested , lost , maintained ? To issue force always in balanced facing angles. No balance no force.

[KPM]

Sometimes other people are worth listening to

[KPM]

Good post Kevin, and good use of biomechanics.

[tc101]

To Ving Tsun " power punching " with this basic Newtonian law of physics is essential. This is why we keep our rear foot driving int the ground ,skimming the ground in short steps.
The quadriceps are the body's strongest muscle group. We use them to lift heavy objects. By using heels to / drive the rear legs into the ground , we can create a pulse of energy into the ground knowing its equal and opposite force will rebound. If we have no balance when we lift a heavy object the imbalance will make us fall. So we also focus on alignment of this pulse of energy. If I adopt elbow angles that align to strike in time with this " pulse " I gain a great amount of force without retracting my arms or relying on upper body rotation to generate force alone ( we can combine facing force later ).
The leg can utilize ALL the muscle groups as it reaches full extension, so along with the quadriceps, we gain hamstrings and calf muscles as they x behind the knee joint and help pull the leg straight. If we rely on rear heel up and don't use this connectivity, we are using the calf muscles ! A relatively weak muscle group. We also shift our weight to the lead leg and lean forwards to hit ( sound familiar ? ) doing this requires a different dynamic chain of events than Ving Tsun.
This is why we require slt sitting on heels and then mobility of chum kiu so we can also utilize force by rotating sharply to specific angles and creating a kinetic " Newtonian cradle " of ballistic forces.
This force generation is not felt by the student when issuing it because the chain of force comes from engaging muscles and channeling it through our tight aligned slt/ck postures. Proving this force is by " inch punch/palm " , WITHOUT leaning into or away from the target prior to or post strike. Iow if you train to " retract to issue force or rotate arms back to make force forwards with upper body rotating ..... As many humans will ; ) you get " the force " .
If you try to issue force like this vt is designed to issue force INTO your preparation.


So ground rebound is essentially THE main requirement for us to ko in short range striking. Stability along varying planes to ensure we protect our center of gravity aka CG. the " chi sao " to us is a drill of trying to move the CG to the edge of your stance angles so balance is tested , lost , maintained ? To issue force always in balanced facing angles. No balance no force.

Yet I can hit just as hard with no rear foot go figure or without stepping or shifting or with drawing the arm. The way I learned to develop power was by contraction. Yes balance is critical.

I have also learned that in fighting you need to be on your toes since all athletic fast or powerful movement begins that way. I do agree with you that the heel is involved in powerful actions since the whole foot is involved in most movement. Think of a sprinter trying to take off on his toes yet his heals hit the ground to drive him forward.

Yes yes yes we push off the ground to move.

Newtonian physics and Newtonian cradles? Really?

[GlennR]

To Ving Tsun " power punching " with this basic Newtonian law of physics is essential. This is why we keep our rear foot driving int the ground ,skimming the ground in short steps.
The quadriceps are the body's strongest muscle group. We use them to lift heavy objects. By using heels to / drive the rear legs into the ground , we can create a pulse of energy into the ground knowing its equal and opposite force will rebound. If we have no balance when we lift a heavy object the imbalance will make us fall. So we also focus on alignment of this pulse of energy. If I adopt elbow angles that align to strike in time with this " pulse " I gain a great amount of force without retracting my arms or relying on upper body rotation to generate force alone ( we can combine facing force later ).
The leg can utilize ALL the muscle groups as it reaches full extension, so along with the quadriceps, we gain hamstrings and calf muscles as they x behind the knee joint and help pull the leg straight. If we rely on rear heel up and don't use this connectivity, we are using the calf muscles ! A relatively weak muscle group. We also shift our weight to the lead leg and lean forwards to hit ( sound familiar ? ) doing this requires a different dynamic chain of events than Ving Tsun.
This is why we require slt sitting on heels and then mobility of chum kiu so we can also utilize force by rotating sharply to specific angles and creating a kinetic " Newtonian cradle " of ballistic forces.
This force generation is not felt by the student when issuing it because the chain of force comes from engaging muscles and channeling it through our tight aligned slt/ck postures. Proving this force is by " inch punch/palm " , WITHOUT leaning into or away from the target prior to or post strike. Iow if you train to " retract to issue force or rotate arms back to make force forwards with upper body rotating ..... As many humans will ; ) you get " the force " .
If you try to issue force like this vt is designed to issue force INTO your preparation.


So ground rebound is essentially THE main requirement for us to ko in short range striking. Stability along varying planes to ensure we protect our center of gravity aka CG. the " chi sao " to us is a drill of trying to move the CG to the edge of your stance angles so balance is tested , lost , maintained ? To issue force always in balanced facing angles. No balance no force.

Very nice explanation Kevin