Combat vs. Health

[Hendrik]

This was what I have said.


OK, I may use the wrong words here. Let me correct this as:

if you train:

- combat, you punch out fast, and your body chase your hand.
- health, you punch out slow, and your body push your hand.

Since you read Chinese, you can help me to verify whether my translation is correct or not.

The XingYi system train inhale instead of exhale. In training, you punch out slow with slow exhale. When you pull your punch back, you inhale quickly. It's light out heavy in, light exhile deep inhale, long exhale short inhale.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8059/inhale.jpg


Teacher Tang said,"The XingYi training and combat are different. In training, you use body to push shoulder, shoulder to push elbow, elbow to push hand, It's like water flow from your shoulder to your hand. In combat, you throw your hand out like a whip. You then use elbow to chase hand, shoulder to chase elbow, body to chase shoulder."

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8...ychasehand.jpg

If you serious about Xing yi and tcma internal,

Since You know Chinese, this is my sigung who is a known person of Xing yi and fighter. Take a look how combat and health are one thing in china. And what is the reality.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4c04eb7d0100bz24.html


，他說：練武不要怕挨打，不要被吹牛的師傅嚇倒，要有實驗的精神，挨一次打學會一著。如果遇到高手，讓他連 發三次手，你就學會了，以你們的樁步和身上的功夫，不發冷手決打不壞你們，要大膽實踐才能學出真本領。可是 不要打人，要讓人服，不要讓人怕。********* ***********

*** 為了籌備我大軍渡江前線情報站，馬老師與許天民同志在南京廢寢忘食地作秘密工作。當時的保護色是籌備醫院， 常來往者有馮玉祥將軍的老參謀長丘山寧、國民政府安若定、殷震夏，中央國術館長張之江，武術界朱國禎、姜容 樵等，白天人來人往絡繹不絕，我們盡管開門、倒茶，抽空站樁、單操手。電燈一來，就成了我們的世界，老師當 樁，引手、喂手，我們幾個人互相打，有時老師也給我們幾掌，無不應聲而倒，跌出丈外。我們安排的技擊實驗場 摔不壞，碰不傷。老師讓我們自己練，告訴我們一個原則，不管任何動作，都要將氣領順，自腳而腿，而腰上至兩 臂。用手則氣貫手指，用頭則怒髮衝冠，氣到力到方為懂勁，不要用猛力，用猛力則僵化，局部的力量究竟有限， 必須上下完整一氣，力由氣發謂之勁，力由局部肌肉發謂之笨力氣。告訴我們推手的原則要捨己從人，不是吃偏發 勁，能打人者為下乘，能挨打者為上乘；肌肉隆起而硬者為下乘，肉軟如棉者為上乘，練武的主要目的是強健身心 ，做好本職工作，能治病救人，濟貧扶危，不要嘩眾取寵，賣藝求榮。


http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/onlypower...1174&l=f&fid=7


This is also my standard of the Yik Kam transform.

[YouKnowWho]

Now we are comparing 唐維祿(1868-1944)'s XingYi vs. 馬禮堂(1903-1989)'s XingYi. We won't be able to draw any conclusion by these comparsion.

http://baike.baidu.com/view/2226892.htm

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4c04eb7d0100bz24.html

[Hendrik]

Now we are comparing 唐維祿(1868-1944)'s XingYi vs. 馬禮堂(1903-1989)'s XingYi. We won't be able to draw any conclusion by these comparsion.

http://baike.baidu.com/view/2226892.htm

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4c04eb7d0100bz24.html

You are an intereting person.

You don't know Xing yi, and you do not take my sigung and those real Chinese fighters records of factual in 1930 . But have all kind of fantasy theory.


There is no comparison needed Fact is fact.

*** 馬禮堂老師亦名馬步周，自幼愛武術，少年時喜好花拳、長拳，稍長從張占魁先生學形意、八卦，又拜形意名家郭 雲深之高足劉偉祥為師，專攻形意拳，更加刻苦鑽研，尤其在技擊，散打方面，深得形意拳之真諦。
*** 東北淪陷後，馬老師不甘日寇凌辱，隧提倡強種救國之國術革命，在北京西城舊禮王府祠堂，組織華北國術研究會 ，延聘孫祿堂、尚雲祥、劉彩臣、王占恆、鄧雲峰，恆壽山等著名拳師為導師，吸收名大學愛國青年，共同學習， 研究強種救國之武術，因此獲得中央國術館長張之江之之支持，書贈「強種救國」四個大字。




You know, I would not even want to talk sc with you because you are an sc guy. However, you are not a tcma internal guy, so, why play expert on something you don't know?

[Hendrik]

You say the following
-------

- combat, you punch out fast, and your body chase your hand.
- health, you punch out slow, and your body push your hand.

-----


You are totally nuts.

Xing yi core, be it for combat or health , is the Shan ti shih and six harmony Jin.

It is not up for your imagination.

If you don't know, say don't know, instead of read something and playing imagination.

I respect your sc, but sorry, please do not polluting our western friends with fantasy.

[YouKnowWho]

You don't know Xing yi, ... But have all kind of fantasy theory.

You are totally nuts. ... If you don't know, say don't know, instead of read something and playing imagination. ... please do not polluting our western friends with fantasy.

My Xingyi linkage is:

郭雲深(Kuo Yuan-Shen) ->刘二彪子(Liu Er Biao Zi) -> GM 常东昇(Chang Dong Sheng) -> John Wang

Please notice that 刘二彪子 was 馬禮堂's teacher.

F.16. 劉緯祥
劉緯祥（1864 - 1936）， 河北省河間府人。8歲時從劉曉嵐習八極拳，14歲時從形意拳名家郭雲深習形意拳，以後又得名師宋世榮、白西 園兩先生指點。經多年苦修，技遂精湛。以驍勇善鬥，講求實戰稱著武林，時人皆以“劉二彪子”稱之。為近代形 意拳技擊實驗派代表人物之一。馬禮堂的武術老師。

http://shappy.sourceforge.net/yangqg/apfs16.html

My teacher's XingYi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKJyd43is0

My XingYi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efSST_RqE7E

[Hendrik]

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4c04eb7d0100bz24.html
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/onlypower...1174&l=f&fid=7

I real hope those of you who has good English translate the above two link I posted .

These way what really happen in tcma internal in 1930 with the top tcma players in china fighters is known. And put these bs imaginary fantasy comparison of combat and health to rest forever.

[YouKnowWho]

I do assume that you have trained XingYi. If your XingYi linkage was from 馬禮堂(Ma Li-Tang). Since 刘二彪子(Liu Er Biao Zi) was 馬禮堂(Ma Li-Tang)'s teacher, we should belong to the same linkage. If 馬禮堂(Ma Li-Tang) is your teacher then we are on the same generation. If not, as far as the XingYi system is concern, you are not in my generation. In either cases, I have no interest to argue with another XingYi guy who belongs to the same linkage as I do.

WC guy may like to argue against another WC guy. XingYi guys should not argue against each other. Again I assume you have trained XingYi even if you have not shown me your XingYi clip yet.

To say "You don't know Xing yi" in a public form is not polite. Besides we have never met, how will you be able to make a statement like that?

[Hendrik]

My Xingyi linkage is:

刘二彪子(Liu Er Biao Zi) -> GM Chang Tung Sheng -> John Wang

Please notice that 刘二彪子 was 馬禮堂's teacher.

F.16. 劉緯祥
劉緯祥（1864 - 1936）， 河北省河間府人。8歲時從劉曉嵐習八極拳，14歲時從形意拳名家郭雲深習形意拳，以後又得名師宋世榮、白西 園兩先生指點。經多年苦修，技遂精湛。以驍勇善鬥，講求實戰稱著武林，時人皆以“劉二彪子”稱之。為近代形 意拳技擊實驗派代表人物之一。馬禮堂的武術老師。

http://shappy.sourceforge.net/yangqg/apfs16.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKJyd43is0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efSST_RqE7E

John,

As the above it says my sigung Ma li dang is a representative of modern combat Xing yi.

So, what is the point of not taking the two links on ma li dang and what is the fracture happen in 1930 as reference but keep argue?

[Hendrik]

I do assume that you have trained XingYi. If your XingYi linkage was from 馬禮堂(Ma Li-Tang). Since 刘二彪子(Liu Er Biao Zi) was 馬禮堂(Ma Li-Tang)'s teacher, we should belong to the same linkage. If 馬禮堂(Ma Li-Tang) is your teacher then we are on the same generation. If not, as far as the XingYi system is concern, you are not in my generation. In either cases, I have no interest to argue with another XinYi guy who belongs to the same linkage as I do.

WC guy may like to argue against another WC guy. XingYi guys should not argue against each other. Again I assume you have trained XingYi even if you have not shown me your XingYi clip yet.

To say "You don't know Xing yi" in a public form is not polite. Besides we have nerer met, how will you be able to make a statement like that?

If you value GM Liu Xing yi lineage then stop making non fracture Xing yi information which Gm Liu did teach in combat and health.

One must speak with fact . The record of Gm Ma li Dang are in that two links above. That is the facts.

[YouKnowWho]

my sigung Ma li dang ...

Sigung means the teacher's teacher. If Ma li dang is your teacher's teacher, I have to say that in the XingYi linkage, you are one generation below me. Again, same generation or not, I have no interest to argue against you about XingYi who are also in my linkage.

[YouKnowWho]

If you value GM Liu Xing yi lineage then stop making non fracture Xing yi information which Gm Liu did teach in combat and health.

One must speak with fact . The record of Gm Ma li Dang are in that two links above. That is the facts.

I usually don't recommand people to read book but I'll suggest you to read this one. Agree or disagree, you can decide afterward.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/202/xy0y.jpg

[Hendrik]

Sigung means the teacher's teacher. If Ma li dang is your teacher's teacher, I have to say that in the XingYi linkage, you are one generation below me. Again, same generation or not, I have no interest to argue against you who are also in my linkage.

I put the two links up above for anyone who want to know the Fact on Xing yi in combat and health , so that they can checkout what is going on in 1930 and my sigung Ma li dang.



Does one have the kung fu as in the above two link or not is the key. Generation and name dropping means nothing in the world of true Kung fu. Not to mention, everyone knows the posiion of Ma li dang in Xing yi. But what is the position of Chang Tung Shen in Xing yi? That is a big question.

From your previous posts, it is very clear that you don't even know how to punch as in Xing yi of the Gm Liu lineage, otherwise you will not post those rediculus post on breath in breath out stuffs.

[YouKnowWho]

But what is the position of Chang Tung Shen in Xing yi? That is a big question.

I saw GM Chang used his XingYi "thunder and lighting strike at the same time" in a challenge fight in Chicage workershop against a boxer back in 1979. I also saw him used XingYi "Hen Chuan" to knock a guy flying 45 degree upward in the Chinese Culture University in Taipei back in 1980.

Here is a picture that he used his "Zhuan Chuan" on a life human being.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8717/changpunch.gif

I know he could use XingYi to fight. What "engine" did he used? I truly don't know and don't care.

Generation and name dropping means nothing in the world of true Kung fu.

Generation may not mean anything to most American, but it's pretty sad to hear any Chinese to say that.

[Hendrik]

I saw GM Chang used his XingYi "thunder and lighting strike at the same time" in a challenge fight in Chicage workershop against a boxer back in 1979. I also saw him used XingYi "Hen Chuan" to knock a guy flying 45 degree upward in the Chinese Culture University in Taipei back in 1980.

Here is a picture that he used his "Zhuan Chuan" on a life human being.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8717/changpunch.gif

I know he could use XingYi to fight. What "engine" did he used? I truly don't know and don't care.


Generation may not mean anything to most American, but it's pretty sad to hear any Chinese to say that.

Chang is a great master of sc. That is no doubt.

As for how deep his Xing yi is a different story. He was not rank as Ma Li Dang in term of Xing yi. That is a reality. You don't know his engine means you don't inherit that part of his Kung fu.




Any one want to talk generation ranking, even in China, one need to show ones Kung fu. Just cannot talk nonsense in one hand making shame of the lineage and on the other hand pulling generation trying to be upper hand. That is just a behavior of taking advantage of the lineage for ones own Benifit. That Is not wude. Wude means said what one knows and not saying what one doesn't know. Wude means being public minded.

[YouKnowWho]

If you say that you know XingYi, please show me your XingYi clip. It's fair that I have shown you mine and you should show me yours.

Do you know Taiji too? If I show you my Taiji, will you show me your Taiji as well?