Originally Posted by
Ultimatewingchun
...it's about hitting the opponent.
And any bridging that involves limb-to-limb or body contact is always meant to be very momentary...
because wing chun/ving tsun/wing tsun, etc...is about striking your opponent multiple times, hopefully on the way to a knockout, or a knock down, which ever comes first.
And if coming in to strike means you need to clear some arms/hands that are in the way - then...momentarily....that's what you should do - so as to be able to hit a hard target, preferably multiple times. And if you're "checking" an opponent's arm (a more accurate term than "trapping")...then you can't expect that to be anything more than momentary with the check either, ie.- lop, pak, gum, lan, etc.
And if that "checking" (or striking, or pressuring) results in some unbalancing of the opponent - then that's momentary also.
Because wing chun/ving tsun/wing tsun, etc. is not about "attaching" to the opponent - similar to a grappling system. No, it's about hitting, and not getting hit - and not allowing the opponent to grab you, ie.- "attach" himself to one or more of your limbs, or your body or your head.
It's about hitting.
Good stuff!
And this..
Originally Posted by
Ultimatewingchun
And if that "checking" (or striking, or pressuring) results in some unbalancing of the opponent - then that's momentary also.
Bang on again..
And something T uses to show why *temporary* breaking of structure with striking is insufficient, when in fact the "checking" (actual VT "attachment") unbalance is just as temporary. But there is also the advanced leg work, this can "in theory" "control" as well..
Truly VT does not "attach" with the exception of T's favorite Jong move, perhaps his main tool along with the MMA stuff..
Originally Posted by
Ultimatewingchun
now you MAY have to fight in an "attached" manner...but if so, you're no longer doing wing chun pure and simple...you're engaging in either some form of wrestling/grappling - or some hybrid (crosstrained) mix of wing chun with other arts.
Exactly..
Of course it depends on exactly what is meant by "attached".. Generally moves that lock up, prevent natural (economical) transition to continuous striking is outside the realm of VT.
Originally Posted by
Ultimatewingchun
Let's just call it as it is. (As I said on a different thread, for example...a guillotine is a guillotine - and not something that I learned from bil jee).
Agreed.....
Originally Posted by
Ultimatewingchun
Sure wing chun will often block, check, parry, redirect...even the occasional simultaneous (or near simultaneous) block and strike (lin sil die dar)...But wing chun, by itself, does not "chase" hands in order to "attach"...like some sort of "striking with grappling" system.
Agreed and yet T says he does not chase hands, but by the standard definition it seems unlikely that he doesn't.
Reaching for "attachment" or reaching for a "trap" or reaching for a whatever IF it means you are not using that time to strike or attempt a strike means a lost beat in VT.. Also if the attachment means you have now trapped that hand you have also lost a beat.
The more they get in our way, the more "attachment" there will be..
Now, what the hell does ATTACHED mean? In VT there is precious little sustained sticking or attaching.. There are times when this could happen but then it's because they are/were fighting for the line, interrupting our attack and then still each move only stays for a moment. Sustained energy issuing could result from *hand replacement* but even then it is a string of multiple short controls not a sustained attachment..
If you are attached to their bridge and they leave the line AND you remain attached as they leave the line you are taking that arm/weapon out of the fight.. This is why VT lets them go and instead of chasing fires the weapon.. Not chasing hands is where many chances to use their force against them comes in.. If you need *sustained* control then a smaller person will have even more trouble because sustained control and momentary control are two different animals, sustained requires more energy and power, VT is about less energy, more economy.
In their attempt to interrupt the attack they will leave the line, this offers an opportunity for position and attack to win over strength and speed. Not to say you might not use some move or tactic once inside to hold and hit them but it is the exception rather than the rule. VT wants to move on to the next strike, to the next finishing move, to the next threat..
In most cases the movements of VT are intended to keep the flow of attack landing on their head.. And doing so in most cases will serve nicely to control them as blast after blast lands on their face/head... And of course there are other attacks and controls that can happen down below with the legs while you keep the attack coming upstairs..
IMO T thinks the strikes have little power because he is trying to pin their bridge with his elbow while hitting with that same arm, and/or his mechanics bite..
It's--The attacking hand defends NOT the controlling hand defends..
Last edited by YungChun; 04-21-2010 at 12:30 AM.
Jim Hawkins
M Y V T K F
"You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu