Reoly to Omar the Fish's next to last post
Originally Posted by Vajramusti
Southern poles and wing chun pole work are different from Northern spears.
China had its diversities.
Pole work may have been originally related to boats but
its usefulness continues in wing chun development of structure, function and motion, if learned properly and well. Its not just for poking.
joy chaudhuri
Explain.
How are they different?
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Apart from the boat versus foot soldier and horsemen origins---
You have to learn good nwing chun pole work- it is not that common.
Even other southern styles like hung gar uses the pole differently.
Dont have time for a dissertation- but basically some short notes might help.
The pole is integrated into the wing chun body structure in its own wing chun way.
The role of the front and back hands are quite different from most spear work..
Those two points are just starters.
Once one learns the pole- no longer needs the pole- anything appropriately longer than a stick will do.Other objects will do. And the hand and structure is energized in new ways by proper pole usage (where the pole doesnt use you).
joy chaudhuri
Comments and reply to Omar the fish in brackets
I think I thought you were moving on to address someone else and didn't really take a good look.
((Ok))
Short notes indeed. But so far this only seems to suggest that you are kind of seeing the thing through WC colored glasses.
((This a wing chun forum supposedly-and my glasses are pretty clear))
EVERY style will have it's own particularities and training methods but the certain basic ideas will remain.
((Little genetic variances make for great differences in the outcomes. And lowest common denominators may not help much in understanding a sytem))
))
You suggested on your own that any stick will do so what basically defines the weapon.
((If you understand and are experienced in wing chun usage of the pole. You cant go running around witha 8 foot teak pole in an urban area these days))
)) You suggested it needs a certain length and from the WC pole I have seen so far I can tell it's mostly used one ended. You don't swith it up or do twirls. Basically one end is the striking end and the other is the end you hold. Is any of that not true?
((Your assumptions and guess work))
More specific to my point though, how would you change this "wing chun way" of integrating the weapon into the body structure if there was a pointy blad attatched to the end? NOT a chopping blade or a slashing one (although you could make somewhat superficial slashes with the tip) but basically a 6 inch sword at the end. Would that be more or less simlar than if you attatched a hook to the end?
((I would adapt to what is available and use it- when I want to))
"How is the WC pole method different from the WC spear method?"
((Adaptation is a hallmark of good wing chun. ))
Haven't you been taught to abstract the principles of the weapon?
((Not following your patronizing question))
Otherwise, how would you use "anything appropriately longer than a stick" as you put it?
((See above- adptation is a hallmark of good wing chun))
This is the primary reason for spear training being continued in most northern arts like Xing Yi or Baji today.
((Not really interested in XingYi or Baji. Wing chun is a demanding mistress))
So far we still have a perfect match between spear and pole.
((You apparently have convinced yourself))
Joy Chaudhuri
Religion and MA, similar indeed !
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr Punch
There is no evidence to say that jujutsu came from any Chinese form.
End of song, end of story.
Well i guess we cant believe it then, Nor can we believe in Jesus, because what evidence there is of this popular figure in history, remains very subjective just like that on the origin of grappling :rolleyes:
I offer no personal opinion on this other than to say Read the book "Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts".
This book purportedly written by authorities on fighting arts in general, put foward the idea that grappling came from the chinesse. It researches the origin of many fighting arts looking at places such as India - China - Japan and Burma.
An interesting read.
The two authors whos names i forget at the mo, are actually students of a few Japanese arts each (So no bias towards the chinesse on thier part).
So we have many opinions around the world that support both sides of the coin.
But hey this thread is about the POLE :cool:
I like the Pole / spear analogy - it hits closer to home than the other examples out there for ME.
The only thing i see seperating the two is the dominating forces at work.
The spear being sharp cuts - and requires less force from the user than a pole on its own.
The Lok Dim Boon relies on body energy (made by you) sent down the pole not by momentum of movement alone ( Dan Kwan anyone ?) and the natural force of the woods - weight strenght etc.
Relying on less momentum of movement than one would use in the spear, but dam close IMO.
Religion and MA, similar indeed !
:) All this is so subjective ! why are people so serious ?