Chin Na in real life

I remember reading an article in the Wing Lam catalogue/magazine/newsletter about how in the olden days, Chin Na techniques were not so sophisticated. Most of the more used and effectively implemented locking techniques were things that we would not call "beginner" level stuff, and they required some more strength than what you'd expect - because of the fact that in real life people resist, things move fast, and fights evolve in ways that you don't expect. If I recall correctly, the article said that the intriate or complex chin na techniques we see now is great in teaching us more depth of knowledge about chin-na, but it's somewhat of an academic extrapolation and exploration of what is possible. What do you guys think of this? I tend to agree with this statement.

I was grappling with a friend of mine yesterday, and he couldn't get a hold of my wrists because I either tightened them or escaped between the thumb and finger.

Later...

Kum La Sao (restraining hand)=Chin na is really pretty sophisticated to apply effectively in a combat situation and requires advanced skill to make it work. In my experience though it is not dependant on strength but on leverage and skill and be able to sense the opponent. Also, if your opponent knows counter Kum La Sao...then he will be able to get out. The best man will overcome the not so best one in Kunm La Sao. Not sure about the rest...I would need some examples.

GHD

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Originally posted by Nick
I was grappling with a friend of mine yesterday, and he couldn't get a hold of my wrists because I either tightened them or escaped between the thumb and finger.

Later...

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Going for locks when an opponent is aware of the attempts is bad. Hell, going for any attack the opponent is ready for is a waste of energy as anything but a feint, and a poor one.

By the way, in case you weren't aware, but anyone good will use you tightening your wrists to their advantage. Your other escape is a better technique, imo.

As far as chin na's go, I prefer ones that don't rely on grabs. Pressing the chin is a simple example. Elbow locks can be done without grabbing. Grabs leave the hands stuck holding when they could be pummeling.

my personal beef with people thinking they can apply chin na in real life is small joint work, which in quick, nasty situations, is extremely difficult -- same as anyone who thinks their eye strike is undefeatable. small targets (fingers/wrists/eyes) are naturally more difficult. i'm a bigger fan of big-joint stuff, like elbow and shoulder locks, neck work, etc.

chin na (at least what i've seen) simply requires a lever and a fulcrum. the smaller the lever, the more complex it is to grasp and keep it. the larger the lever, the simpler it is to grab and keep it. and the easier it is to apply that leverage in a way that will lead to a restraint of your opponent. it's not difficult to control someone on whom you have an elbow lock well-applied and take them to the ground face down. however, have a finger or three, and while the level of pain can be greatly immediate, the strength of the fulcrum (knuckle)is not, and it's more likely for the fulcrum to break than an elbow lock. once that breaks, your leverage is lost and you're back to bare attacks again. controlling with a shoulder/elbow lock, the fulcrum is stronger and the body more likely to follow the pressure. if indeed that fulcrum does break, your opponent is out a shoulder or elbow and, thus, the majority of his arm's use. controlling the neck is something far nastier, but as has been said before, the body will follow where the head is taken.

my $.02. :)

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Originally posted by KC Elbows


Going for locks when an opponent is aware of the attempts is bad. Hell, going for any attack the opponent is ready for is a waste of energy as anything but a feint, and a poor one.

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People should pay attention to the wisdom of this statement.


......and, if your opponent tightens up, kick him in the freaking nuts, then apply chin na.

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Originally posted by rubthebuddha
my personal beef with people thinking they can apply chin na in real life is small joint work, which in quick, nasty situations, is extremely difficult -- same as anyone who thinks their eye strike is undefeatable. small targets (fingers/wrists/eyes) are naturally more difficult. i'm a bigger fan of big-joint stuff, like elbow and shoulder locks, neck work, etc.

chin my $.02. :)

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couldn't agree more ...and a good throw or take down tech doesn't hurt either